Beginning with a Spad (Differing opinions)

[Tattoo]

In light of some comments made on another forum, I decided to bring this up to hopefully quell some negitive myths and mayby get some "on the level" conversation going on the subject. It's been said that a Spad trainer flys like a heavy pig. It's instructions are not as good as supperior kit manufactures, and the task of procuring materials and flaming coroplast for glue is a vague general rule of thumb that would confuse a newbie. The plane in the picture below is possibly the most popular Spad trainer, and they are flying around the world possibly in the thousands. The instructions are the best that I could do with no background in technical writing, and the reviews are favorable. Oh yeah, and the info is free because I just want to spred the fun. The plane in the picture cost less than $10 in materials. This does not include the landing gear and engine mount...which came off a Dura-Plane. Even if a newbie were to build one from total scratch, the cost to build the plane would still be $20-$30...and the gear and hardware transfers to the next plane...so replacing the "airframe" with future Spads would indeed be less than a $10 investment. The plane in the picture involves 7 pieces of Coroplast, 4 yardsticks, and a stick of gutter-pipe. That's 12 pieces that you have to cut, screw and glue together. With experience it take about 4 hours, reports from rank beginners average between 10 and 20 hours for their first one with subsiquent planes going much faster once they figure out the cutting, folding, flashing and gluing. Flashing and gluing does take some practice to get it right. I've been told that this is intimidating to new builders, and a torch also costs about $10. Yes I can agree, but everything worth doing takes a little effort and learning. With 20 year and over 40 balsa planes under my belt, I can assure you that as a beginner, the task of flashing and gluing coro is nothing compared to the task of trying to cover a plane in monocote...which is also expensive and requires a $30 iron. The plane below has a wing loading of @ 16-19 oz/sq.ft. depending on the weight of the LG and engine etc. installed on it. It's flight charicteristics rival that of a Kadet or Falcon...both of which I've owned and flown (I've had 4 Falcons). It's ability to survive crashes is only rivaled by AirCores Dura-Planes and Armidillos. It's taken awhile for these planes to be accepted in our area due to the same misconceptions the forums experience from time to time...but not anymore, and they are everywhere. Even the LHS supports them, because they've learned that they are sucking people into the hobby better than ever and that means lots of flight packs, engines, and tons of fuel being sold. The only negitive thing that I can find in my experiences about this type of trainer is that some may think it's ugly. well...for that there's the Spadet which is even lighter with a better wingloading. Even Uglier (if that's possible) is the BUHOR...which is even lighter and flies better.

http://members.cox.net/spadfest/interview2.jpg

[JimMcIntyre]

Fight the good fight buddie. 8)

Sorry to be so hard on ya on that other site but, I didn't want to hijack the thread any further. :oops:

I think our friendly debates equate to a subtle difference in our enjoyment of the hobby.
- Some desire a shortcut to the field
- still others want a shortcut to experimenting
- yet others want a bounce-proof plane

I enjoy the adventure of the longer path.
Epic Qests aren't for everyone, some prefer half hour sitcoms. Sorry to wax Taoist on you. :wink:

[AJCoholic]

Hey time to voice my opinion...

I fly everything. Not too many guys like me, I dabble in every size plane from 1/2A to giant scale gas, 2 and 4 stroke, heck I even build my own engines. I build from kits, scratch from bought plans, buy ARF's and do a lot of my own designing (have 6 of my own design airplanes currently flying. I fly helis, jets, old timers, etc. I truly enjoy building and flying and everything about this great hobby. I started flying RC (modelled much before that though with FF, cl and rubber) in 83' and consider myself an active participant in this hobby as best I can be.

Now I am only trying to give some background not toot my own horn.

That being said, I find if absolutely foolish to insinuate that SPAD type planes are not "good". Plain and simple they are model aircraft. They are a great addition to the rest of the planes we are able to have and fly and they serve a great purpose. Some build them due to cost restraints, some build them for the durability and some for the speed of contruction.

WHO CARES WHY??? I surely dont. And neither should anyone else.

My student this summer took time and effort and $$ to build a beautifull Sig Kadet Sr and after he solos I am going to get him to build a Spad Ugly Stick for a second plane. Why? Because it is cheap, fast to build and durable. Does that make it somehow less of a model airplane? NO!!!!

If you want to push this to the extreme then I will turn my nose on anyone who buys a purchased engine (what? cant buy a lathe, learn the skills and make your own ;) ) and doesnt design and build their own planes. Rubbish...

So, Tatoo to answer your question, I think SPADS have their rightfull place in this hobby and are suited to training and sport flying as much as anything else.

Just get out and fly, and build, and fly.... promote the hobby no matter what it is you are doing.

Enough said!

(of course, the above is JMHO and not meant as an attack on those who dislike coroplast, CA glue, pre-manufactured airplanes, commercially available engines, fuel and radios... :P )

[Tattoo]

Sometimes I don't know why I fight. I guess it's reading falsehoods. There is nothing superior to the way a non Spad flies. My current favorite Spad out flies anything I ever flew...balsa, foam or plastic. In terms of wingloading, and in some cases down right all up weight, Spads are not heavier. In terms of newbies and confusion, I will never forget getting into the hobby, and just trying to get a Stab hinged and monocoted the first time far exceeded the complexity of an entire Spad project. What I'm gathering is something just is just too good to be true but for once really is, and this really upsets people that have put a lot of time, money and effort into something, and suddenly the next guy shows up with something he slapped tother the night before and is tougher, cheaper, and flies as good. That would ---- me off too...and I would either try it or go out of my way to rag on it. And appearance is improving too :D ...the more guys who like to build, get the coroplast addiction...the more the gap is closing. I wish you were'nt so darn far away Jim...we could continue our discussion at the field 8)

[JimMcIntyre]

You guys are way too serious. :shock:

Andrew, shame on you. In another thread you're bashing sailplanes while on this thread you're stating you fly everything....while bashing me for stating my dislike for 'type'.

To each their own mates, I have friends who don't like biplanes, I don't understand their dislike but I respect their preferences... even when they bash one of mine (in good humour).

[AJCoholic]

Jim,
Didnt bash sailplanes, just said I dont particularly get a thrill flying them (I own one, dont fly it). And yes, I do fancy myself a guy who flys "everything" that is everything I can get my hands on but there are many planes I wish to own that I willnot get a chance to for a while...

That however has nothing to do with the thread!

Jim,
If you really read what I wrote, you will see I am NOT bashing you personally. However, I am bashing your opinion (well stated on many threads here and on RCU) that certain planes (arfs and spads) are "not worthy" I am just offering my differing opinion.

You know, I havent yet had the opportunity to tackle a truely fabulous scale model yet. Just havent the time. I admire you and the others' scale stuff with great awe. I dont however think that to be a true modeller you need to spend hundreds of hours on a plane. Plain and simple! You bash these, in jest or not a smiley face after a bash is still a bash.... I just wanted to state MY strong opinion as another experienced modeller (would have less meaning if it came from a new modeller that has not done much building IMO) that SPADS and simpler designs are indeed planes and damn it, they have so much to offer the hobby!

So, please dont take it personally...

Tatoo, I agree with you 100%. A good flying model is a good flying model no matter what it is built from. Now, looks, that is something to each his own will have to deal with. Some planes are built to show off and look great, some are built for one purpose, to fly and nothing else. Once again, who cares? I couldnt care less what my fellow club mates are flying as long as we all participate in the hobby and HAVE FUN.

[JimMcIntyre]

And that is the point; We all have personal preferences/opinoins.
Sometimes these get mis-interpreted as bashing, much as it did in the infamous ARF threads on that other site.

Yeah, I'm guilty of going too far sometimes (just like others) but, I truly feel aircraft like the Kadet are far superior candidates as trainers than than any plastic fatastic I've yet encountered.

I'm not bashing how other people enjoy their hobby, I'm simply expressing my opinon. Some people don't like 4-strokes. That's ok, I can forgive these people for their personality flaws. :wink:

[Hawk]

Andrew,
I would have to agree with you 100% Fun is what its all about no matter what you fly. and I am new to R/C ( second season) but I have been building models of all sorts since I was 10 yrs old. thats 30 yrs of fun. I now have both balsa and spads and enjoy them both :D I just love the fun of flying and am learning more each day thanks to all of you guys that are willing to help us less experienced, Both in my club and here on the net.
Hawk

PS. Tattoo, anyone bashing you for spads should be ashamed ...there awesome!!! :rock:

[Chunky C]

.... promote the hobby no matter what it is you are doing.

What else needs to be said? I think that no matter what part of the this wonderful sport you like, as long as you have fun at it and positively promote it, then we all have succeeded.

I hate building, love flying. I don't fly so good, so I chose to fly SPADs. What a great combination! And with the job, I travel a lot, and you know what, SPADs travel VERY well. Forget trying to figure out how your going to transport a balsa & monocote wing from Muncie to LA. Though it in a box and put it on a truck. What could be better?

Soap box off.

Cheers!

Chunk

[SPADBob]

I truly feel aircraft like the Kadet are far superior candidates as trainers than than any plastic fatastic I've yet encountered.


Jim, I couldn't agree with you more...at least "Kadet" and "trainer", trouble is, my Spadet IS plastic fantastic... :P :wink:

[Ian]

I fly a little of everything too. I fly and build balsa, spads, park flyers, and am getting into giant scale soon. I don't minbd building but do rather flying a bit. I have built about 20 diferent spads, including bipes, scale and my own designs. I frequent all the spad boards and post from time to time. They are another great side to this very diverse hobby, I don;t care what someone else flys, were all here to have fun aren't we, and what we fly shouldn't matter (as long as it is safe)

[JimMcIntyre]

Sigh...

I must admit the "Spadet" has some nice lines....

I guess I'm just reacting to the SPAD "revolution" over-hype.
I recall the same "enthusiasm" for corrugated carboard as a building material (very similar techniques, except for flashing) back in the late '70s. Balsa was supposed to be a thing of the past in that "revolution" as well... then there was the hot wired foam "revolution" and ABS and .... :roll:

[Kraut]

I truly feel aircraft like the Kadet are far superior candidates as trainers than than any plastic fatastic I've yet encountered.


That phrase is exactly what gets under most SPAD lovers skin - because - while that is your opinion......and you are entitled to it - that statement can be very misleading to a newbie, or to a potential new "SPADDER" :D . "Far superior" is an overstatement big time.....and it leads me to believe that there are definately SPAD's out there that you haven't encountered yet! :D I don't care if people don't like, or even hate SPADs - to each his/her own - but I really feel it is an injustice for people to diss something that they know "just enough to form an opinion about - but not enough to appreciate its fullest potential", because many others will read and believe to be true what you say - just because they hold people like yourself in such high esteem (I certainly do 8) ). Come on Jim - give SPADs a break - we're just here to spread the fun! 8) I just don't understand all the bad press that SPADs get..........it's all good! :lol:

[Tattoo]

To put it the best way I can, 5 years ago my 2 radios and 3 engines and 20 years worth of building scraps were about to go up for sale, and I would have probably just given them to someone who agreed to at least use them. Then a guy we were training made the connection between a Pepsi sign at Wal-Mart and the stuff his Air-Core trainer was made out of. This lit the fuse. 5 years later I have 10 Tx's, 21 flight packs, 24 engines and have build over 300+ airplanes. I'm hoplessly addicted to the hobby, I can't get enough of it, and it shows no sign of slowing down for me. I can't think of any better way to describe it.

[JimMoss]

Ok .... here come my 2 cents. :lol:

Put my Pizza Box Flyer together yesterday and flew today ...... What a blast! :TU:

It is 24" square, I have a 32 Webra with a 10 X 5 prop, and I made a cover out of 2 mil coro to keep the radio clean (only added 1 oz) all up weight 2 lbs 4 oz. :D

At full throttle it accelerates to quickly straight up so I had to throttle back on the vertical lines. :wink:

The guys at the field were extremely impressed with what it could do for a $10 airplane.

All I can say is don't knock them until you try them. 8)

Here is a picture of me before the maiden flight.

Jim Moss :)

[JimMoss]

Here are a few more pics after the maiden flight and some decorating.

A couple for the F.U. taba boys as well. :wink:

Jim Moss :)

[JimMoss]

2 .....

[JimMoss]

3 ... Just in case you couldn't make the last one out ..... Thanks Randy :wink:

[AJCoholic]

You guys stated what I was thinking but failed to put into words...

When newcomers see experienced modellers like us, Jim M, forcefully degrading one type of plane, they WILL (yes, they will) form the opinion that that is the case without second thought. Thats bad! Unless you have flown a particular plane VS a traditional built up you are not fair to "bash" it.

Influence is a powerfull thing. Someone is allways listening to what we say, allways....

Jim Moss - PBF super duper! You buy the streamers next time you come up to KL for some PBF combat :twisted:

[JimMoss]

When newcomers see experienced modellers like us, Jim M, forcefully degrading one type of plane,
You mean 'Jim Mc' Don't you? :wink:

I'll bring the ribbons .... If I ever make it that way again! :wink:

Jim Moss :)

[Tattoo]

I guess I'm just reacting to the SPAD "revolution" over-hype.
I recall the same "enthusiasm" for corrugated carboard as a building material (very similar techniques, except for flashing) back in the late '70s. Balsa was supposed to be a thing of the past in that "revolution" as well... then there was the hot wired foam "revolution" and ABS and ....


I remember the Cardboard idea. It resulted in an article in a mag, and one even showed up at the field. In the last 26 years, I've seen 2 more cardboard planes at the field. As for the foam revolution...my gosh, there are so many foam planes out there...but...it didn't replace balsa...and you know...you might be on to something Jim...because where did anyone get the idea that coroplast would replace balsa? Is this what intimidates people to the point of being defensive and negitive? And where did you get the idea of a revolution? As a spadder looking out, maybe I'm not aware of what it looks like from the perspective of someone looking in. I've always looked at it like a couple guys enjoying their hobby, having a blast, and wanting to share what we do it as an option. Never as a revolution or replacment...just a choice. Is that how you see it?

I recall the same "enthusiasm"

As for enthusiasm...here's a little trivia. There have been over 500,000 front door visitors to the spad web site. Of the front door visitors, they made over 2,700,000 page hits in the month of April alone, and came from 84 different countries. In April, 26% of the visitors came from RCU, and over 40% of the visitors were used a search engine looking for "Plastic Planes" or a variation of that theme. There are currently 18 small companies selling Spad ARF's or Kits, and I know of at least 2 of them making a living at it. The two major Coroplast retailers in the US have sold so much mail order Coroplast, that they now ask if you are buying it for model airplanes, so they know how to cut it for you. There is one internet forum completely devoted to Spads, with the Spad topic added to at least 2 other forums that I know of in the US and this one here in Canada. I also have heard of Spad forums in at least two other countries, most recently Brazil. Spads have appeared in the combat column of the AMA magazine, RCX and RCReport almost monthly for the last year, and RCReport recently ran a 7 page feature on the DasPlastick. The editor of RCReport voluntarily gave Spad a FREE 1/4 page add for two months advertising Spadfest, and most recently gave Spad a FREE full page general promotion. RCReport in conjunction with Spadworld.net also just held the first annual Spad design contest, and there is also another feature article in the works for another one of the popular Spad designs...all this leading up to the recent hireing of a monthly Spad column writer. Spadfest drew pilots from 14 different states dispite 3 days of rain, and everyone had a riot. A VP from the AMA showed up to conduct interviews and take pictures for the AMA magazine. A video was also shot, and is reported to soon be edited and reliesed as an hour long video for sale to Spadders. The planning stages for next years Spadfest is already underway.

I would say there is a wee bit of enthusiasm going on here. I would also like to add that Kraut and I just build planes in our little shops, and put our planes on the internet. Everything else mentioned above happenened because of other people. It's not us who have taken the ball and rolled with it...it's them, it just happened, and we are still quite overwhelmed every day.

[JimMcIntyre]

Ok, I give.

I can admit when I'm wrong, you all make good points. I guess I never thought of it from the perspective of my having much sway to 'influence newbies'. :oops:

"It's all fun until somebody get's hurt." :?

Please accept my apology.

I guess to do pennance I'm going to have to build/fly a SPAD and try to have fun while doing it. :wink:

[RCHawaii]

Hello Jim, First off Great Site! Love the setup.

I am a scale sorta guy, ya know can't help myself to add too many details. I've owned a few, but My favorite Plane is a 'Stang My P51-D Big Beautiful Doll is the last balsa ship I got in a trade at RCO from a guy in India for some old timer racing and collectors engines. I even did a review or two in the rco days for a couple websites on the build (This was the TopFlight Gold Edition).

Since I left RCO (Or since RCO left me) I have moved on.

I wound up not meeting Kraut and Tattoo at RCO to my unfortunate luck.(They were there but I didn't realize it then). However one day their site popped up, no idea why.

However I looked at the SPAD Showcase, showcasing the beautiful GeeBee and other Scale spads in there at the time and I was simply in awe. How the heck can a guy build a plane lookin that good from plastic!!!

Later on, I had the pleasure ot taking on the host of the SPAD forum (Converted from a complete self riteious BALSA Forum I might add!!! without hesitation when given the opportunity.)

In any case I built my first spad An SNS (Saturday Night Special) The blue one Deb was pictured with for those who recall. Since I have built A few Mig7's, A CoroStang, working on a CoroSpit, an Electric baby Eindecker right now (Shhhhh guys its butt ugly right now and no stickers ok), and I made my own scratch Foam KI-64 based on 3-views and pictures from the web with a 72" span because of the SPAD philosophies. I am also working on a CAC Wirraway, however it's on hold at the moment.

I know, you're a balsa die hard-that's cool., but here's a little of my history.
I built my forum to house a balsa forum, nothing more. Choosing the right wood, tight grain, loose grain, proper method of diluting epoxy, installing everything from retracts to scale sliding canopies, you know the stuff. Well my partner was like you, only flies WOOD ya know. Why anything else? It's the way it's always been, and will be right>? Since, I have had to move on and walk over the line myself, stepping off and thinking out of the proverbial "box". My parter at that time told me , "If the site goes all plastic, I don't want anything to do with it and won't support you." [It's cool hes a balsa die hard and I respect that, but the forum was my idea, and he was a friend helping for free.] Well he no longer actally logs onto the site. However I do see him pop up now and again, and I know he looks at the site, seeing the growth (We had none when it was all balsa)-who knows what he thinks, but I did hear a rumor he got or tried a PBF (A Flipin Disk I believe) and said hes sticking to his huge Gilesand such, whatever for scale flying, but for absolute fun, the disk is what hell always take with him.

SPADs have given me the pleasure of still enjoying my "scalitude", while working with very cheap, easy materials, which are not only tough, but also resilient. No matter what SPAD or derivative I build now, I will always think Scale, I think it's in my blood. To each their own. HEck it takes me alot longer to build a SPAD because I think too much about it.

I am learning though. Tattoo, Kraut, Chris, ChunkyC and soo many SPADOHOLICS have and will continue to teach me to think "out of the box" and stop second guessing weather this is just right or that is just right.

JUST DO IT!

So Jim (I believe you were at the old RCO also If Im not mistaken?). I say to you, get out of the box man, build one, and fly the snot out of it. if You don't like it, bash away. A cheap awesome flying airplane you build yourself form free plans with a heck of a bunch of great guys aint for everyone-but it might be for you!

BTW The "Bashing" I do now is from paper, pics, plans, or ideas to plastic-and I for one love it!

Thanks Guys for all the plastic!

P.S. Sorry for the length. :D Great forum good luck with it

[can773]

I think SPADs are damn cool stuff...keep it up.

If it werent for the creativity of a few modellers to start doing new things, this hobby would get boring pretty fast.

It doesnt matter what plane you fly, if you built it from scratch or bought it assembled, what radio, what engine, what fuel or anything, as long as you get a kick from doing it, thats whats important.

If/when I ever get out of competition aerobatics (ya right :)) I am going to SPAD me up a 2 meter F3A pattern model :) I just hope the YS 140DZ wont shake it apart :)

[RCHawaii]

http://jwtfamily.org/rc_albums/spadbuild/acy.jpg

GMAX
Ace


63 Posts
Posted - 01/04/2003 : 19:28:52
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

wing span = 55" started out 65" kept cutting
down until I liked the performance.
Length = 50" prop to rudder tip
tail feathers = ALL BALSA "ouch"
Fuse Const.= PVC+Foam covered with 2 mil
canopy = foam covered with vinyl
cowl = soda bottle
Engine = Saito 65

The Spattern flies great. Better than most
planes that I have flown. Does everything in
the book except hover.
Today I let one of our clubs pattern guys
fly it. He was very impressed with the flight
caracteristics.


Well, I'd say it was your turn now Can773 :D I think there is a chance :D:D

http://members.shaw.ca/teamcanadaf3a/danevo1.jpg

[scaleguy]

RCHawai,

Wats the address of your SPAD forum and do youhave any of the great balsa techniquies you were talking about left on it? :D :D :D

[Ian]

the link for the spad forum is
www.spadworld.net
I'm logged on as spadnut over there

[RCHawaii]

RCHawai,

Wats the address of your SPAD forum and do youhave any of the great balsa techniquies you were talking about left on it? :D :D :D

LOL no there are few balsa techniques on the forum anymore, if any. It's the SPAD Forum now. Thanks for giving him the link, it's also on my little "WWW" button in my posts.

There's alot of SPAD techniques however!!! Build one, try it out..I did :D

[RCHawaii]

RCHawai,

Wats the address of your SPAD forum and do youhave any of the great balsa techniquies you were talking about left on it? :D :D :D
I thought about this some more, and I have one great tip for you big balsa flyers... :roll: :shock: :lol:

If you crash, you need to take a bag with you to the field. :lol:

Sorry lol

[JimMcIntyre]

If you crash, you need to take a bag with you to the field. :lol:

I guess you SPAD flyers just need the bag in case a camera is nearby. :P

[Kraut]

I guess you SPAD flyers just need the bag in case a camera is nearby

Is that to cover the plane - or the pilot? :shock: :lol: :D :wink:

[AJCoholic]

Down in Tillsonburg this weekend, I flew the heck out of the el' Cheapo! and it seemed to get quite a few comments. It gets bashed around a LOT when I am pushing myself and so far this year I would have had to rebuild three built up balsa planes (one cartwheel, one inverted powered landing in the rough and one very hard nose down impact). The spad didnt even get bent up!

I feel super confident when I am flying it due to the excellent flying characteristics, and I am improving my inverted low flying, my hovering low, my other crazy type manouvers all due to the zero stree factor.

Is that not worth a lot?? Who cares what it looks like. My flying is improving by leaps and bounds - is that not what this is about?

And I know if I do bend it up, a new one is 4 hours away and less than $10 out of pocket. I just dont know how some of the guys dont get the benifits of this type of plane...

[Tattoo]

Thanks AJCoholic, That sort of brings this thread around full circle, and was my point in bringing this up. Put those same feelings into that of someone just getting started. Risk a $100 kit and months of building, or $200 on an ARF, or $10 on a Spad...and yet people will go out of their way to bash the concept. When Collin and I first started building Spads and made the website we had no idea how this concept would explode...so I guess that speaks for what some pilots are looking for...but we also weren't ready for the amount of negitivity we would get. It's like these people have stock in kit manufacturers or something. I just about betchya though that Jim already has some coroplast in his garage...and may have even breathed some PVC dust lately...of course he won't admit it it...but's it's eating him alive how much fun we're having...and he also want's to practicing hovering with a QHOR...but he'll never admit to it.

[JimMcIntyre]

but he'll never admit to it.

:wink:

I'm waiting for the next election, they left coroplast all over my corner lot. :?

[Tattoo]

I knew it!!! BTW...eyeballing election signs is the first sign of serious spaditus. It's not too late...there is still hope if you don't touch any...but once you do...it starts the serious downward spiral into spadohaulism 8)

[Chris Cann]

lol I told my mom that when the election rolls around here we have to order like 10 signs and when thy come to pick them up say they already got them lol!!

[RCHawaii]

If you crash, you need to take a bag with you to the field. :lol:

I guess you SPAD flyers just need the bag in case a camera is nearby. :P


Um, whadda ya mean Jim?

:oops:

[Vulcan1]

Tattoo, I have been following this site and other sites with your name for awhile. I want to build the PQHOR but want to know if it will take a good .40 engine. I have several FSR's and Webra's but know 25's. I am the one building the 1/5th Clunk and want to play like I used to and keep the thumbs in it. John

[Tattoo]

Vulcan1,
I just finished the following airplane, and it's got a GMS .47 on it...it hasn't flown yet, so I don't know what to expect. I am predicting that balls-to-the-walls may be a little iffy in the flex/flutter department, but I'm looking more for unlimited hover pullout power and 3D performance than top speed. I'm also experimenting with a simi-flat airfoil here, and don't quite know what to expect 8)

http://members.cox.net/spad/pics/pqhor40.jpg
http://members.cox.net/spad/pics/pqhor401.jpg
http://members.cox.net/spad/pics/pqhor402.jpg

--GMS .47
--36" span x 19" chord
--36" rail fuselage
--all 4" straight control surfaces
--5 flutes folded for nice round LE
--There is NO airfoil fold, wing sits flat on fuselage
--middle wing cut-out for fuselage is 4" long and starts 6" from LE
--CG is 6" from LE with empty tank
--there is an 18" x 5/32" piece of music wire centered in flute at CG and flute forward of aileron hinge line
--Inner thickness of wing is 1/2"
--AUW is 4 pounds 6 ounces

[LectroSpaZ]

Hey that plane is going to be one WILD RIDE.
Hover?? That thing will hover to the moon I bet with that motor on it
And it looks very sporty.
I bet you spent more time on the stickers then you did building.
"Ahhhhhhh the JOYS OF SPADS"
Some people just don't get the spad thing,,,,but you know that's ok too.
The world needs their money to turn.
Heck I can afford to fly anything I want. But since I have been building spads,,,,why take 8 weeks to build a plane when I can build two complete in a nite.
Let me know how it flys.
Thanks
Jeffrey

Hey Jim,,, do I need to mail you some coro so you too can learn the "Joy of SPADS" ??

[JimMcIntyre]

8 weeks? I don't think I've ever completed anything in 8 weeks! :shock: :lol:

[LectroSpaZ]

Wake up man..
DO WE NEED TO MAIL YOU SOME CORO?? {free of charge to you}
I really don't think you get it.
Some people perfer Intel and some perfer amd.
Don't knock it till you try it..........DO WE NEED TO MAIL YOU SOME CORO?? {free of charge to you}
Spad is going to grow by leaps and bounds.
I have got 4 people in this hobby because of spad.
and yes they have balsa now too.
It's cheap and fast and most people do not have the time to build a plane
that takes 8 weeks.
Spads hone your skills and the pucker factor is next to zero.
Yea most of us fly balsa to, they have their place. But for the quick
build, and hard wringging out in a 35 mile an hour constant wind, I will take my spad's.
DO WE NEED TO MAIL YOU SOME CORO?? {free of charge to you}

Jeffrey

[Tattoo]

Hey Jeff...great to seeya here!!! Hopefully find out if the new plane flies today 8) ...BTW...I wouldn't worry about sending Jim any coro...my guess is he's already got a truckload in the shed, and I just about betchya he's already flown several Spads...but you know how some guys are...they just won't admit it. But I'm sure some guys have to be wondering about Jim...you know...ever since he was seen hovering his tripe a foot off the deck :yikes: :D

[davey]

I am a new flyer and have recently built and flown a Debonair with a Buhor wing. It is my second trainer. The first I managed to crash. The thing of it is, if I understand the original intent of this thread, relates to what a trainer can do for a new flyer.
My first plane was not a good choice. :oops: It was fast and a bit heavy for a trainer and was more acrobatic than one should expect from this kind of airplane. I have been sitting on this Spad since winter because I was more concerned about what the more experienced guys thought than having something that would do what a trainer should do for sombody like myself.
The fellow that checked out the Debonair handed me the controls after a few minutes of flying. It flew with minimum trim adjustments. As soon as I took the controls I could tell this is an airplane that I can trust to learn with. While I realize that everyone crashes the first few, it can be harder on a new flyer, and this is something the Debonair is good with. It builds and fixes so easily that I have more confidence than I had with the first plane.
I am repeating a similar line expressed by others. The interesting part is when other new flyers saw my efforts with the Deb they wanted one for the same reason. Not to make too fine a point of it, some of the better flyers are looking into using Spads for combat. This is new for our club and should make a good start.

My original trainer weighed in at 23 oz per sq. ft. wing loading and the Deb at only 17.3 oz per sq. ft. The difference, to my skill level, is quite a bit. Both planes used 0.47 engines and 10x6 props.
At this point I intend to enjoy as much of a cross section of this hobby as I am able and can say that Spads are a good place to start. If there is a lot of excitement over Spads just now that's OK as well. This is also part of what we are about. Passing on the excitement of some part of this hobby is catching and that is all that seems to be going on.

I am amazed at how much experience is out there when I read your input.
Thanks to you all. :D

[Dan Nadeau]

Your plane looks great Tattoo. It looks hot! I can't wait for your report on how it flys. I need something that will outfly Andrew's Spad. We were pretty much evenly matched in our combat flights(PQHOR vs QHOR).

[Tattoo]

Thanks! Check out the last couple pages of this thread over at RCU for more info and flight report on the new plane...hope to get the plans done in the next couple weeks 8)
http://www.rcuniverse.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=121420&forumid=235

[JimMcIntyre]

I was more concerned about what the more experienced guys thought

You should never be concerned about this. The only ones that will give you a truly hard time at the field are the ones that are concerned you'll show them up. :wink:

Do expect a little teasing from time to time though, in fact, look forward to it. This is a sign you've been accepted as one of the guys. 8)

Now you made me step in it, I've just given myself away to Dean and the guys hear (if they clue in to the above statement :P ).

------------------

Free corro mailed to me?!!! Make it balsa and you got a deal. :P

------------------

As for hovering my triplane... well no but, will these do?

[LectroSpaZ]

Apology Accepted!!!!
I just can't figure out why it takes longer then 8 weeks to build something.
That nexus shurly did not take 8 weeks to put together.
All this negative stuff from a guy that fly's a nexus.
No explination needed.
Do I smell a turnaround??
Should have told me you fly a Nexus that explains EVERYTHING!!!
Jeffrey

[Fodder]

The only ones that will give you a truly hard time at the field are the ones that are concerned you'll show them up. :wink:
Now I know the true reason for you slanderous comments Jim. :lol: :cheers:

[Fodder]

Jim, unfortunately this time pictures aren't worth 1000 words. The morris hover could really be a vertical ascent and the heli hover could be a shot of it on the way down before the impact. Not that I would every insinuate anything, but only the photographer is the true witness and I only know one of them from these shots. :P :mrgreen:

[Kraut]

As for hovering my triplane... well no but, will these do?


But.....but......but......where is the picture of you hovering your PQHOR? :lol: :shock: :roll: :wink:

[JimMcIntyre]

Apology Accepted!!!!
Apology? You been sniffing coro burn? :question:
I just can't figure out why it takes longer then 8 weeks to build something.
Well that explains those ugly flingy corrugations I've seen. :wink:

That nexus shurly did not take 8 weeks to put together.As a matter of fact.... I just don't trust the factory assembly. It was torn down and rebuilt, same with my Raptor that replaced it.

All this negative stuff from a guy that fly's a nexus.

Hey, my posts are not meant to be negative, just somewhat tongue-in-sheek opinions. I prefer aircraft that resemble the real thing (above pictures aside). I also appreciate good craftsmanship. What's wrong with that?

I keep "pushing" Dean and I noticed his planes are looking better.... still waiting forhim to show up at a scale meet with the Ford Tri-motor he promised. :wink:

--- as for understanding 8 weeks....here's the triplane Dean was referring to:
http://jim_mcintyre.tripod.com/dr1.html

[AJCoholic]

Jim,
If you think a Morris knife resembles a real plane.... :roll: You gotta' try a PQHOR and I am convinced you will see why I decided to try spads this last year.

Doesnt everything have its place? Look at the combat me and Dan Nadeau were doing last night. We would never have tried to smash up a few built up planes (even profile balsa like my faser that I can build and cover and set up in less than 8 hours). I was trying my hardest to hit his QHOR and it was awesome.

Cheap coro planes and built up balsa CAN coexist... I can take a picture of the inside of my model storage shed if you dont believe me... they are quite civil to each other ;)

[JimMcIntyre]

Andrew,

Ya gotta learn to relax man. I'm not the "bull in a china shop" anti-anything different type you seem to think I am (judging from posts here and the other site).

Really, it's all in fun. Don't tell me you're serious all the time or I'll begin losing the respect I've been building up for you.... :?

---------------

Man, I may just have to build that SPAD spad after all....just to get you rabid SPADoholic "pushers" off my back. :wink:

[chiroman]

:yikes:

How come no body told me about spads! I've been at this for about a year and didn 't know they existed! AWSOME! I can't wait to try building my first one and then to start designing my own. They look very durable and will probably handle trees better than my eagle trainer.

thanks tattoo

[chiroman]

Hey electrospaZ,

If I write some negative comments about spads will you send me some free coro? If not, where is the best place to get it?

Never mind, i just read the hints and tips on the spad site. I'll still take the free coro if you're offering though :wink:

[LectroSpaZ]

Apology? You been sniffing coro burn?



Yea that's it ,,,,propane and coro,,,, and drinking ca,,,, Mmmmm,,,,you will find out SOON ENOUGH !
Jeffrey