View Full Version : problem with GWS receiver?
07-19-2004, 07:24 PM
I have currently been unable to fly my Shock flyer for the past 3 weeks since I got it done. I am using a GWS 4 channel receiver, and a pixie 7 speed control for the stock motor/gearbox.
The problem is that on anything more than about 1/3 throttle, the aileron servo goes hard over to the left and stay there. Everything operates normally when I have the motor turned off, or below 1/3 power.
I twisted the leads to and from the speed control, it helped a wee bit but it is still a problem.
So, Today I ordered a Hitec feather receiver to see if it will solve the issue.
Anyone else have any advice or had this problem?
My Shocky is banged up pretty good, from trying to fly it before I realised what was happening, its still in one piece though, and I hope I will get to fly it soon..
07-19-2004, 08:04 PM
hmm, never had that problem, maybe as dave holmes always says hold a dremel up to the rx while it's on and see if stuff goes nuts then you know it's an rx problem
07-19-2004, 08:49 PM
"1/2A to Giant scale - its all good!"
Well know that you have an electric you should change it to "1/2A to electric to Giant scale - its all good!"
Anyway I think that if your getting a hitec you should try to cut the RX antena in half, I had a bit of interference when it was a whole, but first try the dremal thing, I hate to say it, I have a feling it might be the ESC.
07-19-2004, 09:27 PM
If I wrap the esc in tin foil you think it would help? I guess I can try it...
I am not quite ready to change my love of glow and gas quite yet... ;)
07-19-2004, 09:40 PM
electric fits in just after 1/2a :D I wouldn't cut the antenna. My GWS naro RX works amazing with the full antenna!
07-19-2004, 11:32 PM
The last thing you want to do is shorten your RX antenna or double it over.
It sounds like you're getting RF noise from your motor. Do you have noise supressors on it? (little capacitors- beige globs with leads coming out of them connected in parallel with the motor leads). If not, then I guarantee this is your problem. The purpose of these capacitors is to eliminate RF noise caused by the motor's brushes, and keep unwanted electrical signals isolated within the motor. Another possibility could be that the supressor(s) are faulty, or the motor has some more serious issues like excessive arcing between the brushes and commutator.
Wraping the electronics with tin foil will not help because the RF noise enters the RX either through the electrical wires and ESC, or through the antenna- and covering the antenna with tin foil would not produce good results :wink:
I don't think the interferance would be coming from the ESC (unless it is originating at the motor) because PWM signals and ESC output pulses do not usually match up to cause radio interferance (unless the ESC has crazies).
07-20-2004, 06:31 AM
I have the three supplied capacitors soldered onto the motor as they are supposed to be.
One thing a buddy who used to race rc cars said - it may be due to the motor being new and not yet broken in? What do you think. Should I just let it run for 15 minutes or so and see if it improves or what?
07-20-2004, 06:54 AM
If you haven't already done so, make sure the batteries and power wiring are separated as much as possible from the receiver, antenna and servo wiring. A common layout with electric airplanes is to have the power system up front and the receiver and entenna behind to ensure there is no overlap. I don't know how this is arranged in the shocky...
It is best to do range checks at partial throttle settings.
Some GWS Receivers are noted for poor performance. A lot of us fly Berg because they are SO much better.
If there is excessive arcing in the commutator this will increase RF interference. This can be caused by incorrectly formed brushes (not broken in) and/or incorrect timing.
Get an Axi 2204/54 for that thing when they become available. ;)
07-20-2004, 12:28 PM
axi, nah a t6/3d from oilman is the ultimate motor!
07-20-2004, 07:12 PM
sorry to disagree, but the AXI 2212/34
is the motor of choice of most European 3D flyers :roll:
07-20-2004, 07:19 PM
That doesn't mean anything! What about all the CDN's with the t6/3d, and the USA citizens! Josh Glavin, XFC pilot who came 12th this year (he had tech problems) has tried hacker and t6/3d and axi and he chooses the t6/3d!
07-20-2004, 09:05 PM
Thanks guys but this is a problem with my receiver :)
I do plan to get a brushless eventually but I would like to see this thing fly stock first.
I ran the motor in on a 6v battery for 1/2 hour and the arcing isnt visable any more. I will try again tomorrow if its not raining.
07-21-2004, 05:42 AM
Just for your information Andrew, to break in a "brushed" motor , get yourself a 2 cell "D" battery holder with 2 freshly charged "D" Nicads or Duracells. Clip the leads directly to your motor(no prop or gearbox) and dunk it in a container of water (running) until the batteries go dead. This will seat the brushes on the commutator and clean away the debris at the same time. Make sure you thoroughly dry the motor when done, then lightly lube the bushings.. The water method is not recommended for "Ball bearing" type motors , but the rest of the procedure is.
If the motor is "stock" timed for regular rotation, hook up the break in battery leads + to + , - to -. If it is to be used in a gearbox (reverse) hook up the leads + to -.
Works for me :D
P.S. Brushed motors ain't dead yet!
07-21-2004, 11:15 AM
Thanks George, I dont have too much experience with electric motors/rc other than the one rc car I had back in the mid 80's... :)
07-21-2004, 10:19 PM
My own experience with that receiver is that it doesn't like too much voltage, when trying to fly it with a 3s1p pack I get the results you describe, the problem goes away when reverting to lower voltage packs. There may be a different brand of ESC that doesn't pass higher voltage through to the receiver but it seems that my Electrifly, Pixie and GWS ESC passes about 7 volts to the receiver when hooked up to a 3s1p pack with a full charge. There is no problem when I use those ESC with my old Hitec AM 3 channel receiver, but it has its own BEC circuit so when I only need 3 channels thats been my solution, but for 4 channels or more and those ESC's the Berg receiver is it I'm afraid.
07-22-2004, 07:39 AM
The Axi 2212/34 IS a great motor. I have one in a Solero bipe and it is fabulous. But it is for larger aircraft with 3s for power. It would be quite (well, VERY) heavy in a shocky - hence the suggestion to try the new little Axi...
Anywho, as Andrew says, right now this is about the receiver.
07-22-2004, 09:43 AM
a great one for the shockey is the 2208/34
you can use 2 or 3 li-pols with it 8)
07-22-2004, 11:19 AM
I installed the Hitec Feather during my break this morning (I am currentlyhome for lunch) and behold! At first try, no twitchyness or glitching even at full throttle...
More to follow! I may get to test fly this evening :)
07-22-2004, 04:24 PM
Well, here is more but its not good.. :(
I am having the same interference with the Feather. Spoke to Gary at Great Hobbies and he thinks it may be the speed control (I have tried everything else) and is sending me another to try out.
There are many planes in their area flying with the exact same setup (3 cell lipo, stock Shock motor and the pixie 7 esc, GWS receiver ) without problems so I will give it a shot...
I am determined to get this plane flying! ( without resorting to a brushless setup - yet)
07-23-2004, 09:06 AM
Oh to bad the rx wasn't the easy fix....hopefully it is the esc so you can get it in the air :D But look on the bright side, now you have two rx's sp ypu can get another electric....or ofcourse suit it to a 1/2a plane!
07-25-2004, 07:09 PM
any progress andrew?
07-25-2004, 07:20 PM
The new esc and motor was only sent out FRiday Chris... I wont have it for a few days yet (no mail on weekends remember?)
And I am busy with work this week, and leaving Friday for the IMAC contest in Sudbury... maybe wont get to it untill afterwards but I am hoping to try it before then, and maybe bring it with me to the contest :)
07-25-2004, 07:25 PM
Just thinkign maybe you fixed it w/o the new esc and motor...
07-25-2004, 07:27 PM
Nope, I tried everything and it gets the servos glitching still. Not going to try again untill I get the new ESC.
09-20-2004, 06:40 PM
Hi Andrew did you ever get a fix to this problem?
I'm having the same problems with a new setup I have in an older plane I have (Electric Depron)..
It had a GWS 350C with D Gearbox 10X4.7 prop, GWS Speed Control, GWS 4ch Receiver .....LIPO battery 7.4V 1200 mah
Never had a glitch, went to ...
a Himax 2025/5300 with the D Gearbox 11X4.7 prop, Phoenix-10 Speed Control, GWS 4ch Receiver .....LIPO battery 7.4V 1200 mah
Now I seem to get lots of glitches???
On the original setup I had all wires together and never had a problem.
When I had the problems first time I separated all the wires (made it pretty :wink: ) but it didn't help still getting the same glitches?
Anyone have any ideas?
09-20-2004, 09:19 PM
My solution after trying the GWS and Hitec feather with glitching, was to use a JR 610 FM receiver. WOrks fine now :)
09-20-2004, 09:29 PM
I have a new R700 receiver maybe I will try that.
Thanks Andrew :wink:
09-20-2004, 09:44 PM
I tried EVERYTHING... swaped out the battery, speed control, servos, motor and still no good. I dont know why but I had a severe glitch on my ailerons. The JR receiver was the fix... I noticed Frank Klenk was using one (a 610) on his foamy at the IMAC as well. The 700 is only slightly larger...
09-22-2004, 09:40 PM
1: Pull the Rx from the plane
2: Grab your biggest hammer
3: I'll bet you can guess this one.... :wink: ...don't hit your thumb by mistake :shock:
These 2 Rx's are *KNOWN* for glitch problems. If you have one in your plane and are having problems, this is the first place you should be looking.
<edit> Andrew - you wrap the Rx in Al foil, NOT the ESC - and it does work *sometimes*. Wrapping the ESC is a no-no - you want cooling air to pass over it.....<edit>
Hi Andrew. saw your Saito article in FLY RC ---good job :TU: Now if you can get me a deal on the saito 100 :yes: Anyway back to the thread, I have the same receiver in my original GWS Tiger Moth (BORING!) and had all kinds of problems with glitching until I sandwiched the crystal to the board with a mickey mouse balsa sandwich! Looks kinda funkie, but cured the twitches :wink:
ANYWAY I have an E Flite Ultimate 3d that's coming this week (backordered for 2 months :twisted: ) and I think i will order the Hitec feather too. Do you know if the gws servos fit this receiver? I still think running an electric motor underwater sounds like disaster, but what the hey...you only die once :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:
09-25-2004, 08:25 PM
Yes the GWS servos plug into the Hitec Feather receiver no problems...
Let me know how the new electric works out!
Hey, I cant get "deals" on engines, unfortunately :(
Great, thanks. Have you flown your shocky with the new receiver yet? What are you using for LIPO, controller, etc..
Inquiring minds want to know?
I am seriously thinking of selling off most of my glow stuff, and going to foamies for practice and hacking around, and to gassers for serious stuff. I find most glow planes now are very boring and not nearly as reliable as the alternatives. I still have a fondness for the 90 size 4 stroker however, since there are so many planes available for that size.
09-25-2004, 08:35 PM
Lee after talking to a few people, rather than going for the GWS or Feather it has been recommended to me to go with the Berg receivers.
No glitching with these .... I have been told haven't tried one yet though. :wink:
09-25-2004, 09:19 PM
LEE: It certainly does sound like disaster - especially to me! I'm an industrial 'lectrician, and motor soaking is a kinda no-no in my field. However, *IT WORKS*. Make sure you blow the motor out afterwards, and oil the bushings. This is the best way I know of to seat the brushes quickly!
I just hold my nose and look away while this is happening...... :roll:
Re-timing the motor also works well.......
09-25-2004, 11:00 PM
I have not really had many reliability issues with glow models in my years in the hobby - certainly I have had engines with problems, but most of mine are as reliable as the gas engines I have run in the past few years... I certanly dont plan to give up on glow engines any time soon! (not to mention the 20 odd planes I have with them, VS the 3 with gas)
The electrics certainly have my interest, but I wasnt able this summer to give them as much time as I thought I would. I am glad I got my Shock Flyer flying, but even that has not really flown too much in the last month due to being busy.
I have the stock motor/gearbox, 3cell 700mah lipo kokam pack, castle creations pixie 7 speed control, jr 610 mini receiver, and a Hitec HS 55 servo for the ailerons, and two GWS naro servos on the tail surfaces.
I would like to put together a larger foam plane with a brushless motor, something like what Frank Klenk had up at the NOIC...
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