View Full Version : Lesson learned that I want to pass on
nexstarpilot
12-11-2004, 02:25 PM
post deleted
Nexstar pilot, your poll question does not make sense. :?
I was going to submit my answer (very dumb) but I don't understand the pole like Ron. Get the pun :lol: "pole" as in lamp pole. lol
Norm
3dflyer
12-11-2004, 06:08 PM
i wouldn,t have even put that on the forum.i would be to :oops: to even think of putting it here.
besides flying out of a parking lot that would create a safety hazard to the public and property.thats why we fly at insured flying sites.
orenda635
12-11-2004, 08:12 PM
Don't feel so bad. At the Oakville North Field there is a large safety net protecting the pits that is supported by too steel poles. I saw the same guy hit both poles of course not on the same day. The poles are only 10ft high and are behind the pilots. :lol:
It is dangerous flying in a public place because you cannot control the access of people while you are up flying...
Even if the place is totally deserted, what happens is that people are attracted by the sight or sound of the flying model and come over to see what is happening. If a group of kids shows up on bikes and start riding around the parking lot, where are you going to land?
No need to ask how I figured this out :D
Nony........did they move when you starting screaming frantically? :wink:
always flying
12-21-2004, 09:17 PM
Nextstar...its weird how close those poles seem when your trying to land in between them..... :shock: :shock: I felt the same way when i flew in a gymnasium....it got really small in a hurry..lol.. :lol: :lol: :lol:
I feel your pain...you'll be back in the air in no time...
"Happy Flying Is Always Flying"
manny h.
prangled prop
12-22-2004, 08:46 AM
It always amazes me how some people out there are ready to jump all over a guy. I would sure like to see these guys fly, I bet they are not as prefect as they let the world think they are.
can773
12-22-2004, 10:29 AM
It always amazes me how some people out there are ready to jump all over a guy. I would sure like to see these guys fly, I bet they are not as prefect as they let the world think they are.
Whats truly amazing is that someone would actually think flying in a parking lot is acceptable practise...
Doesnt matter how good you are or think you are......
and to think....people actually have to ask the question...."why are MAAC's insurace premiums increasing"
seems obvious to me.
So the next time someone smokes a car while flying in a parking lot and makes a claim through MAAC, dont complain when the insurance premiums double and the membership fees go up to compensate...
3dflyer
12-22-2004, 06:53 PM
i agree with you on that chad.makes alot of sense.thats why we have secured and insured flying sites.
fly safe. :)
prangled prop
12-22-2004, 07:28 PM
Come on Chad now it your turn to jump all over me? I doubt that MAAC premiums have sky rocketed because of any of the incidents you have mentioned and I doubt that they will double because someone hits a car, but they will sky rocket that is the way insurance provider work these days.
I agree that it may not have been the smartest thing that this individual could have done but neither you or I know the circumstances under which this individual was flying. I personally know of 2 lighted parking lots that at times are traffic free and are far enough from built up areas that kids are not going to show up on their bikes. I personally would not fly there and I would not suggest that anyone else try. Further more did you consider that he was flying a light weight park electric?. I have a foam electric that I doubt would cause anyone or anything any damage if it hit but the wings would definitely fold up if it hit a light standard.
My point is that some people seem to take a great deal of delight in coming down on others with both feet even if they do not know the circumstances. All this does is cause embarrassment to the guy who posted the message. The message was in the beginners section which suggests to me that he is new and inexperienced and some gentle questions and suggestions would have been more appropriate.
My comment was not necessarily pointed directly at Wayne's post but generally at how easy it is to lord over other long distance. Thank goodness this type of thing has for the most part been stopped here on this site.
can773
12-22-2004, 09:00 PM
Come on Chad now it your turn to jump all over me?
It was not my intention to seem like I was going after your post...
I doubt that MAAC premiums have sky rocketed because of any of the incidents you have mentioned and I doubt that they will double because someone hits a car, but they will sky rocket that is the way insurance provider work these days.
I dont know why they have increased, but I am sure more claims dont help. Point is if there are individuals flying in a manner they should not be, with the potential to cause damage and subsequently make a claim, its the responsibility of all of us who want to see MAAC continue to make sure that this doesnt happen.
Personally I dont see why MAAC covers vehicle damage anyways, it should only pay out liability and medical claims.
but neither you or I know the circumstances under which this individual was flying. I personally know of 2 lighted parking lots that at times are traffic free and are far enough from built up areas that kids are not going to show up on their bikes.
This doesnt hold water.....I dont care what parking lot it is you shouldnt be flying there. Thats like saying, oh well there is no one on the highway I can drive as fast as I want.....
Its not those cars or people you see that are the problem, its the one you dont that is.
Further more did you consider that he was flying a light weight park electric?.
Yes I did in fact, however, after reading his original post several times I drew the conclusion that his plane is a more conventional type model
He also signs his post with nexstarpilot.....NexStar is a 40 size trainer from the Hobbico Empire. Also find his post "first crash" that should clear it up also.
The message was in the beginners section which suggests to me that he is new and inexperienced and some gentle questions and suggestions would have been more appropriate.
I prefer the direct approach.....and would expect anyone to do the same to me.
I have been at this hobby for 15 years, and hope to be at it for another 50 (hey I am only 27 :) ). Planes are bigger, more powerful than when I started. We cannot afford to be reactive to safety or we are going to lose what we have.
What happened this summer should have opened all of our eyes about how deadly these "toys" of ours truly are.
I don't disagree that flying a glow powered model from a parking lot is not the wisest thing to do. However making the jump to increasing MAAC fees is a bit of a stretch. Do we even know if a claim was submitted as a result of this incident? I do agree that there are very serious safety concerns in our hobby community and they are contributing to the possible fee increases. There are alot of serious dangers related to this hobby but I believe that the majority of the insurance increases are from insurance companies planning for the what if senario. That is what we are paying for now. What if someone does this or that with a model airplane. The insurance companies see an oppurtunity to increase our rates with the (BS) justification of the what if and the potential liability that goes along with it. If insurance companies based our rates only on the amount of claims we have in a given year and the amount paid out to those claims then I would suspect we would see a decrease in our premiums. Insurance companies are not in the business of paying out money for the policies you purchase, they are in the business of collecting your money and then hoping (read trying their best) to not pay out a cent. I have done some work for insurance companies after 911 and the biggest concern was their exposure to paying money out regardless of past claim history. If you look at it from an insurance companies eyes you can see the logic (sorta) but then you have to look at the likely hood of the worst case senario actually happening, ussually an incredibly slim chance of it taking place. Although planing for a rainy day is a wise thing to do I haven't started to build an ark for the next time a world flood occurs but that it what insurance companies are trying to do.
Just my 25 cents worth. Did you get the impression I don't like insurance companies?
can773
12-22-2004, 11:12 PM
However making the jump to increasing MAAC fees is a bit of a stretch.
I dont. Our insurance premiums have went from 30K to 125K within the last 4 or 5 years. We have never had a serious claim.....what do you think is going to happen if we do? I dont think its a stretch to figure it out.....
What happens if you get a couple of speeding tickets.....if you dont think the insurance company will increase rates or deny coverage completely if we have a major claim then you are in some serious denial.
How long do you think MAAC will last if it cant provide insurance to its members.....
Do we even know if a claim was submitted as a result of this incident?
If you are referring to the London accident, yes there is a claim in progress as far as I know. As the insurance for this year is already in place I dont think we will know what the result of this is until next year
If you look at it from an insurance companies eyes you can see the logic (sorta) but then you have to look at the likely hood of the worst case senario actually happening, ussually an incredibly slim chance of it taking place.
Possibly, but if the number of plane hits car in parking claims were to increase annually do you not think it likely that the insurance company might just say "hey these guys are a bunch of nutcases flying models in parking lots" do you really think they will cover us then? How many incidents will it take....1, 10, I dont know.....but I will bet money the fewer we have the better it is for us.
Point is be responsible, fly safe.
Propworn
12-23-2004, 12:26 AM
Chad MAAC insurance covers you at a recognized and registered field or a place which you have permission to fly from. In all cases there is a set of minimum standards for safe flying. I doubt he would be successful registering any kind of claim through MAAC. As to addressing this one beginner who chose to ignore what some would say is common sense why not address the hundreds of rc toys sold by the same manufacturers of regular rc equipment that advocate learning to fly without benefit of joining any club and in public parks and school yards.
Dennis Pratt
can773
12-23-2004, 08:40 AM
I doubt he would be successful registering any kind of claim through MAAC
I would hope so
why not address the hundreds of rc toys sold by the same manufacturers of regular rc equipment that advocate learning to fly without benefit of joining any club and in public parks and school yards.
Unless they are members of MAAC and flying under MAAC insurance its their own dime thats on the line. Not mine and 10,000+ others who will have to pay for the increase in premiums.
Like someone said, the insurance companies increase the premiums without justification......what do you think they are going to do with some justification?
It always amazes me how some people out there are ready to jump all over a guy. I would sure like to see these guys fly, I bet they are not as prefect as they let the world think they are.
Whats truly amazing is that someone would actually think flying in a parking lot is acceptable practise...
Doesnt matter how good you are or think you are......
and to think....people actually have to ask the question...."why are MAAC's insurace premiums increasing"
seems obvious to me.
So the next time someone smokes a car while flying in a parking lot and makes a claim through MAAC, dont complain when the insurance premiums double and the membership fees go up to compensate...
Chad,
You have directly implied that this incident resulted in a MAAC claim and that may not be the case and if so MAAC would have out right denied the claim due to the flying location. You have made this inference twice.
Come on Chad now it your turn to jump all over me?
It was not my intention to seem like I was going after your post...
I doubt that MAAC premiums have sky rocketed because of any of the incidents you have mentioned and I doubt that they will double because someone hits a car, but they will sky rocket that is the way insurance provider work these days.
I dont know why they have increased, but I am sure more claims dont help. Point is if there are individuals flying in a manner they should not be, with the potential to cause damage and subsequently make a claim, its the responsibility of all of us who want to see MAAC continue to make sure that this doesnt happen.
Personally I dont see why MAAC covers vehicle damage anyways, it should only pay out liability and medical claims.
but neither you or I know the circumstances under which this individual was flying. I personally know of 2 lighted parking lots that at times are traffic free and are far enough from built up areas that kids are not going to show up on their bikes.
This doesnt hold water.....I dont care what parking lot it is you shouldnt be flying there. Thats like saying, oh well there is no one on the highway I can drive as fast as I want.....
Its not those cars or people you see that are the problem, its the one you dont that is.
Further more did you consider that he was flying a light weight park electric?.
Yes I did in fact, however, after reading his original post several times I drew the conclusion that his plane is a more conventional type model
He also signs his post with nexstarpilot.....NexStar is a 40 size trainer from the Hobbico Empire. Also find his post "first crash" that should clear it up also.
The message was in the beginners section which suggests to me that he is new and inexperienced and some gentle questions and suggestions would have been more appropriate.
I prefer the direct approach.....and would expect anyone to do the same to me.
I have been at this hobby for 15 years, and hope to be at it for another 50 (hey I am only 27 :) ). Planes are bigger, more powerful than when I started. We cannot afford to be reactive to safety or we are going to lose what we have.
What happened this summer should have opened all of our eyes about how deadly these "toys" of ours truly are.
Chad,
This is where you made the second reference to how this particular incident can contribute to increasing our MAAC fees. You are relating this incident to another that took place this year on a very serious nature and I believe the 2 are very seperate from each other. Bringing the other accident up seems to be trying to hype the situation. Yes there was a claim as a result from the accident in London this summer but it has nothing to do with this thread.
can773
12-23-2004, 09:22 AM
Chad,
You have directly implied that this incident resulted in a MAAC claim and that may not be the case and if so MAAC would have out right denied the claim due to the flying location. You have made this inference twice.
I directly implied nothing, what you read into the comments is what you get out of them.
My comments were driven by the original poster but go more to the general increase in lack of common sense that I see in this hobby.
You assume MAAC would deny a plane to vehicle claim, maybe they would...but I have been told by those in the know that this is the most common claim made......I would bet if one were to look through all the claims there would be at least one of questionable details.
can773
12-23-2004, 09:24 AM
Bringing the other accident up seems to be trying to hype the situation. Yes there was a claim as a result from the accident in London this summer but it has nothing to do with this thread.
This goes to the very heart of the issue of safety.....flying in a parking lot could very easily result in the same accident that occured this summer.
However making the jump to increasing MAAC fees is a bit of a stretch.
I dont. Our insurance premiums have went from 30K to 125K within the last 4 or 5 years. We have never had a serious claim.....what do you think is going to happen if we do? I dont think its a stretch to figure it out.....
What happens if you get a couple of speeding tickets.....if you dont think the insurance company will increase rates or deny coverage completely if we have a major claim then you are in some serious denial.
How long do you think MAAC will last if it cant provide insurance to its members.....
Do we even know if a claim was submitted as a result of this incident?
If you are referring to the London accident, yes there is a claim in progress as far as I know. As the insurance for this year is already in place I dont think we will know what the result of this is until next year
If you look at it from an insurance companies eyes you can see the logic (sorta) but then you have to look at the likely hood of the worst case senario actually happening, ussually an incredibly slim chance of it taking place.
Possibly, but if the number of plane hits car in parking claims were to increase annually do you not think it likely that the insurance company might just say "hey these guys are a bunch of nutcases flying models in parking lots" do you really think they will cover us then? How many incidents will it take....1, 10, I dont know.....but I will bet money the fewer we have the better it is for us.
Point is be responsible, fly safe.
Chad,
Point is to fly safe and the fact that this modeler posted this is just that. He specifically mentions that it was a learning experience. Not to be repeated and then posted it so others would not make the same mistake. I will be the first to admit that what this modeler did was careless and irresponsible. I'm glad to hear that he learned that it is unacceptable to fly in a parking lot.
If you read my original post again you will see that I never mentioned the accident in London this summer so when I reffered to a claim not being submitted its obvious that I was reffering to the original incident of this thread. I do agree with you that if we have a bunch of claims then our premiums will increase however the comment of "plane hits car claims" is not justified in this thread. Had someones plane hit a car at the local flying field then yes it could result in a MAAC claim but under the circumstances of this thread it cannot.
When you quote an individuals post it does, with me however, look as though you are picking apart what that particular person is saying. In my original post on this thread I did not quote anyone just for that reason, instead I made the points I wanted to say and left it at that. I have now quoted you several times to prove that point exactly.
I have read alot of your posts and think you have an incredible amount of knowledge about this hobby and I respect you for that, I just felt that this got a little heated for what the original topic was about.
The original topic was a question (if I understand it properly) in a somewhat joking manner of How stupid was this? The modeler obviously realizes that what they did was not right and has admitted to that and says not to do it. I believe your intentions are good and honourable but this was/is not the thread to bring up this subject.
I am now unsubscribing from this thread.
No disrespect intended, but I still don't understand the poll question. :?
can773
12-23-2004, 10:21 AM
No disrespect intended, but I still don't understand the poll question. :?
lol
Propworn
12-24-2004, 12:57 PM
[quote
Unless they are members of MAAC and flying under MAAC insurance its their own dime thats on the line. Not mine and 10,000+ others who will have to pay for the increase in premiums.
Like someone said, the insurance companies increase the premiums without justification......what do you think they are going to do with some justification?
I wish this were true Chad unfortunately when an accident occurs none of the press bother to ask if the pilot was a MAAC member or not. Its reported as a irresponsible person flying an RC airplane. In the eyes of the general public this lumps us all together for very few of the general public know about MAAC and its rules and safety guidelines. Compared to other sports or endeavors the safety record of MAAC is very good yet none of the press ever report that. They only want the details that make the news. Who got hurt, how much damage these things could do etc. Everything is perception. For instance there is a bylaw in our city about flying internal combustion planes in the parks yet its ok to fly electrics. Lack of knowledge is our enemy more than anything.
Dennis
Gary Maker
12-24-2004, 03:00 PM
I too do not understand the poll questions especially No. 1
Do you think this was stupid, yes or no?
Even if you had a 1000 people answer that question, how does it give you an answer to whether that 1000 people thought it was stupid or not? There is no way of knowing how many answering are saying "YES" or how many are saying "NO"? All you know is that 60% gave an answer, nothing more!
You should revise your two questions to ask :" Yes - I think this was stupid!" And the second question, "NO - Not very stupid!"
Now the results will be beneficial to you and you'll get a reasonable response from every one who answers your poll and you'll probable get a lot more people willing to take part!
Steven Dew
12-28-2004, 07:18 AM
Yes insurance rate will go up proportionally with
numbers and costs of accidents.
Regardless, we must ensure safety at all times.
You got to ask yourself everytime -- Is it safe for
me to fly here. If the answer is questionable --
DON'T FLY and go somewhere it is safe.
Jabba
12-28-2004, 08:41 AM
It always amazes me how some people out there are ready to jump all over a guy. I would sure like to see these guys fly, I bet they are not as prefect as they let the world think they are.
Whats truly amazing is that someone would actually think flying in a parking lot is acceptable practise...
Doesnt matter how good you are or think you are......
and to think....people actually have to ask the question...."why are MAAC's insurace premiums increasing"
seems obvious to me.
IF the pilot does NOT have the permission of the land owner....MAAC's insurance would not pay anyway.....
The site MUST be registered with MAAC.
So the next time someone smokes a car while flying in a parking lot and makes a claim through MAAC, dont complain when the insurance premiums double and the membership fees go up to compensate...
Donkey Doctor
01-14-2005, 02:58 PM
Hello; I did that with my first plane a Skyward 40. I walked to the nearest swchool, just over the fence of my backyard. The plane wouldn't taxi fast enough to take off on the soccor field, so I took it to the paved playground. It took off just fine from there. then I had to teach myself how to fly and land. Shortly after that I had to teach myself how to re-build my plane.
I did the same thing with a control line plane I bought for my young son, walked over to the school fired it up and let 'er rip. I hate those cox engines.
I now realize the foolishness of my youth, but I didn't know any other flyers and it just had to fly. I didn't his any poles but I hit the curb on a low pass and broke the firewall out.
Helen
01-27-2005, 06:41 AM
That reminds me of one of my first flights, we had a small electric plane and I was out flying with my husband and son. We were at a field by our house and it was really open except for one corner had some kind of fenced in part with power lines running into it. Of corse hubby tells me to keep my back to the lines and fly in front of myself. Of course I got into trouble and my son was trying to tell me to bank right and still new and confused easily I banked left, I couldn't have hit that line any better if I had tried. Needless to say we never flew there anymore.
Helen
01-27-2005, 07:00 AM
Don't mean to get into it with you guys but I am fairly new to the hobby and I have a quick question. I would never dream of flying my gas plane in a park or smaller space where I would attract kids. But I have seen people flying small electric planes in fields by schools or in parks and have done it myself. Question: Why are they called park flyers?
Colin
05-03-2005, 09:52 AM
What are we debating? If it was a small electric....so what! If it was a glow powered plane then I'd be worried :p
Colin
I STILL don't understand the Poll question??!! :?
Colin
05-04-2005, 06:51 PM
The question was: Is flying a plane in a parking lot stupid? (that's how I understood it anyway)
My answer would be yes and no. Depends on the plane. A small foamy IMO is no problem :) Just watch out for the poles...that's how I recked my last foamy hehe.
http://www.rcteens.org/forums/uploads/post-32-1115245786.jpg
Colin
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