Profile Canadair Tutor

[Dutkoski]

While on vacation in Europe I have had a lot of time to think about "stuff". I see that the small profile jets are starting to get popular due to their easy construction and simple structures. But they are small....and delicate due to the thin deperon construction.

I was contemplating building a more, rugged profile EDF plane. The subject will be the Canadair Tutor. Instead of a flat surface wing, I will actually cut an airfoiled wing, the fuse will have a side profile and a top profile made from 1/2" thick extruded foam. The vertical stab and horizontal stab will also be hot wired cut with an airfoil. The reasons for this is, I have the CNC foam cutter, so I do not have to cut them myself and the airfoil sections will perform better than just flat pieces.

It will have a 70 mm EDF unit included, but no electronics ( ie: motor, servos, battery, etc )

At 1/11th scale, it will have a wingspan of 39" and a length of 34" which will still be a convienent size for a one piece plane.

At 1/10th scale it's starting to get a bit big, 48.6" wing and 42.6" length. Most likely will have to design it to have a removable wing but will make a quick one and see if the 70 mm EDF will be sufficent enough to power it.

Using the 70 mm EDF unit, there are numerous inexpensive motors on the market that work well with 3 and 4 cell lipos.

I won't supply any landing gear, but will supply information on the installation if a customer wishes to fabricate one. It will be large enough for mini mechanical retracts also.

I want to keep a complete kit, including the wire, hinges, horns, EDF unit, etc at about $100.00 CAD. What are your thoughts on this.

Oh, if the plane works out, I will donate one complete kit to R/C Canada for this forum in some type of a contest. We have to start chatting more guys, lets get more projects going and start more topics this up coming building season. Even the ARF forum is ahead of us in the number of topics . . . . .

Take care guys, I'm coming back to Canada tomorrow so will start working on this project once settled.

John
Models By John

[BigJohn]

Looking forward to seeing how it works out for you.Question for you,if your cutting airfoiled flight surfaces would you be rounding the edges of the fuse to help with air flow instead of keeping them flat(square cut)as its going to be a bite thinker than say 6 mil depron.John

[Dutkoski]

Well, that would help out I guess. I could try and use the router table if I could somehow make a hard template for the ball bearing to ride along but I don't think it would be possible. The customer would be better off doing this after the construction as the edge will most likely get bumped around during the assembly. I could supply a light weight sanding block with the proper grit sand paper already attached. You could then also lightly sand the wings, horizontal stab and vertical stab as well.

[Dutkoski]

Last night I programed the CNC foam cutter with the data to make the wings, horizontal stab and the small vertical fin. This morning I cut the first set, some fine tuning is needed but will get that done tonight. Hopefully will have the prototype done within the next few days.

[Tex Gehman]

You've got the machinery to make "aerofloil" shapes, but for most of us flat plate wings,tail and fin are just fine in a non-scale model. Actually there is little to no benefit from doing the shaped surfaces other than close-up looks and some strength if there is thickness increase.

Streamlining, or "aerofoil" shaping is more of a low speed drag reducing exercize, rather than lift producing in our sizes of vehicles.

I'd like to make a profile Toot, but using flat plate tech. Maybe you could publish? TIA, Tex.

[Pauld]

If you are building profiles, put a fibreglass tube down the center of the fuse and right thru the middle of the wing if possible. The profile gas guys have been doing this for some time now and it solves all of the problems with the lack of structural strength in the fuse and provides a backbone to build off.

Here is a link to the guy's web-site who pioneered the idea:

http://www.swanyshouse.com/index.aspx

[LuvEvolution7]

I would deffinitely be in on this project for sure.........I've always wanted a Tutor. I'll be following this thread with interest, for sure.

[Dutkoski]

I have the airframe pretty well assembled. It went together quite easily. Started at 11:00 a.m. and by 2:00 P.M. most of it was together. Used only 5 minute epoxy for adhesive to keep things simple as far as adhesives go. The MBJ-70 EDF unit ( I import them as no name brands from where else, China ) fits nicely. Will be using a Turnigy outrunner EDF motor and most likely a 3 cell Lipo to start off with.
I looked at using a plain flat wing but it was just too flexible and I wanted to keep things simple but good quality. So I am using an airfoil wing. It's fairly rigid and instead of the fiberglass rods, I used 1/8" square balsa strips to act as stiffeners.
In the pic's you will notice that there isn't a support for the fuselage on top of the EDF unit. There will be a removable piece that goes there so you can remove the EDF system if required. The edges of the fuse that are in front and at the rear of the EDF unit will be sanded to a taper as the 1/2 foam is just to much of an obstruction.
Basically, I can get two and a half models out of one 2' X 8' piece of foam. But with some re-positioning of parts, I most likely can get one more.
Once I figure out the proper balance point for the model, I will cut a hole in the fuse to insert the battery pack so it's less obtrusive in front of the EDF unit. It will be held in place with a velcro strap.
The final dimensions are 44" wingspan and 39.5" length. You will require 4 servos One for each aileron, rudder and elevator. This will be a one piece model. The EDF unit will be included with the kit along with all wood, plastic and any metal parts.
Attached are some pic's, any suggestions on how to improve the design are welcomed.

[vonJaerschky]

Tutor, heck, I want to know about the F-104!!!!!! (Although the simple little Tutor looks pretty neat, too!)

[Dutkoski]

I'm send you a PM

[Shotgun06]

Yep, interesting work on the tutor but that F-104 in the background... I' interested as I'm interested in your Arrow..

Alain

[Dutkoski]

Well, I'm still plugging away on the Arrow. Making the foam core wings and vertical fin into plugs to make moulds. But there was a slight problem as I could not scribe the panel lines into the surface as the balsa under the resin just collapsed when I put pressure on it with the scribe. So, I put fiberglass cloth and am trying out the old micro masking tape trick. The vertical fin was taped and two coats of resin, will sand it and see how it works, if not, more resin and back to the scribing, with a lot less pressure.
After this Arrow is done, I'll get at the big one in the garage, 1/8th scale, and I do mean scale.....

The F-104 is being converted to EDF power, AP-1200 EDF, Mega ANc 22/50/2E, Turnigy 120 AMP ESC, two 5S1P 5000 batteries ( to be upgraded later to two 6S1P 5000's ).

I have the moulds for a Mirage F-1C also, it's in the same scale I think, I'm going to make it an EDF model as well. They are original moulds that I bought from a friend who was going to pitch them out. They are very scale in shape and outline, but unfortunately, he didn't put any panel lines on it. The pic shows a fuselage of the F-1c made for a small turbine, the edf version will not have as much carbon as it's not needed.

So many planes, so little time......

[BigJohn]

Looking good with the profile can't wait to here how it flys.Not to change the subject if you don't mind but what ever happen to the Lanc you were doing?

[ddruck]

I have never heard of Airfoil being a drag reducing exercise before, very funny, any airfoil at all is better then today's generation of flat plate junk, especially at faster speeds.

Keep up the development, it is looking good, fuse may need a little carbon or balsa to make it stronger in the EDF area but that can be added later.
Hardly wait for the finished product.
Dan



Streamlining, or "aerofoil" shaping is more of a low speed drag reducing exercize, rather than lift producing in our sizes of vehicles.

I'd like to make a profile Toot, but using flat plate tech. Maybe you could publish? TIA, Tex.

[ddruck]

Hey guys what happened to this, I was hoping it was going to become a kit??......