Beginner Jet?

[1340]

Is there such a thing as a "beginner" jet, and what would it be?
Thanks.

[vasy]

Yes. it would be easy to take off and land and need little speed to land and have good power all stock and does not fly too fast and easy to see in the air and track well on the ground with out much corrections, have all the parts available for replacements if needed be.
here is the best I suggest: http://www.snhobbies.com/product_info.php?cPath=21_36&products_id=380

This store is only a few minutes away form my house and he carries ll the pairs for this plane in stock.

It is not 1st plane, but ok for a 1st jet. It can land slowly and has a moderate take off speed and flies very stable. This plane dead sticks easy and can glide well.
Very easy to repair as I found out and can take a heavy beating with help of some 5 minute epoxy.
I'd like to sell mine as I'm moving on but can't ship it as it does not come apart :(
In our very small club about 70% who have jets, started with this plane as the 1st jet.

it is BY FAR better then RCLander jets, they are more like 3rd or 4th as you have to by very good at handling one.

[milehiclub]

Hey 1340, the F-16 was my first jet after re-training myself on a Wilga 2000, since I had not flown for about 18 years. I have had it for about 1 year now and still fly it stock, except for adding lights. I always chop throtle on landing because it glides so nicely. I really enjoy flying it and now have moved up to a Rafale 64mm edf, Different jet all together. I have video's on youtube if you are interested. Search "milehiclub" Cheers.

[byrocat]

Quick qeuestion: how much flying experience have you had?

Not that flying jets is difficult, depending upon the model. However, you really need to ahve the basic down before you move int this area, the same being said about many other aspects of this hobby (pylon, aerobatics, giant scale, ...) as things will happen in a real hurry or it will be expensive.

All we know about you is that you've posted 7 times on this site (as of today).

Talk about yourself a bit, tell us where you are in the hobby a,d what you've been flying.

My personal suggestion woudl be an ARF kit but essentially a straight-winged aircraft like the LA-29(? I think I got that one right) rather than the speed-of-heat birds like the F-16.

After all, the full-sized guys work towards the front rank planes by building skills and knowledge on other aircraft.

[LuvEvolution7]

I would agree with Byrocat on this one............be careful in getting into this part of the hobby if you have little flight experience. that being said, here's a link to a great first EDF jet.

http://www.nitroplanes.com/edf-trainer.html

there are smaller versions of this online too. I believe it's a 64mm or 70mm version and is a bit cheaper to buy and to fly. these planes are floaters as far as EDF goes and handles very much like a trainer plane. if you can fly a trainer well, you can fly this well. just be aware that you need more room/height to recover from a mistake, since you have no prop wash over the surfaces. lost speed can be a @#$% to recover if you don't leave yourself with enough height.

that being said, you can teach yourself with this plane quite easily. I will say that my first jet was an EDF Sapac Eurofighter and it was a bit of a learning curve and I've been flying since I was a kid. that was almost 25 years ago............my god, has it been that long? LOL. you have to re-teach yourself to fly in respect to maintaining energy levels. it's easy to get out of trouble when things get slow with a prop plane, but with a jet, energy management is the key to success. the good thing is, you will learn it, there's no doubt about that. if you get the fan trainer, you will learn it quicker and easier than with a less forgiving model, such as that F-16 or my Eurofighter. I think like myself, others on this site would want to see you get into this successfully and I believe my advice to you is sound. and I believe the fan trainer is the way to go. just my two cents.

Rich

[vasy]

I'd not agree that balsa plane of any kind is good for any trainer, EDF or not, foam is much better in repair department.
I'd agree with general comments about F16 as a fast plane. BUT the one I sent a link is not scale like RCLander or E-flight, it does not have that many bad tendencies as your average F16.
You can dead stick it from a mile away, you can actually power our from many crappie situation where other f-16's will just fall like a brick. We have video of me catching it on landing and it has to go very slow for one to do that. I’m sure there are other good EDF trainers at there are as many opinions as there are people on what is best.
EDF is for sure not a prop :)

[Michael in Toronto]

Slowest, easiest-to-fly ducted fan ARF is the GWS A-10.

If you are a reasonably good flyer, the Phase 3 F-16 is excellent.
Although this is a semi-scale model capable of flying fast, it can also fly quite slowly.

Both are relatively simple to build, and both are light and easy to hand-launch.

[vettster]

"My personal suggestion would be an ARF kit but essentially a straight-winged aircraft like the LA-29(? I think I got that one right)"

Bruce! That would be the L-39 and its a b^tch to fly. Not a good first EDF at all.



Here ya go! http://www.pw-rc.com/product_info.php/cPath/38/products_id/1533?osCsid=fo8v45c988s8o406osn1vb01l6

This is the easiest EDF to fly EVER! The price is great and thease guys will have it on your doorstep in 5 biz days. This plane can land slower than any others, can go very fast and can be flown in winds up to 25klm. This was my first EDF and it was a dream to fly. Its single engine so you dont have two times the trouble. $140 for Plug n Play and $95 for airframe and servos.

Ahhh what the heck! Im going to get it again. I love that plane:p

Trevor

[vasy]

http://www.pw-rc.com/product_info.php/cPath/38/products_id/1533?osCsid=fo8v45c988s8o406osn1vb01l6

This is the easiest EDF to fly EVER!
Trevor

Cool, I just go this EDF a few days ago, just getting it ready to fly :)
www.snhobbies.com also has it, and it is in stock and no reason to wait from Asia and pay extra duty.

[Pepperpete]

I have to agree with Trevor but also want to throw the below into the mix...=)

I've flown over a hundred different EDF's (I live to fly them, I don't think you could name one that I haven't...heheh) and without a doudt the easiest jet to learn on would be the Starmax F-18 64mm...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6cU0ToPC91I&feature=player_embedded

It's beyond easy to hand launch if you don't want the wheels on and practically fly's itself. Plus landing is a breeze. I used to take off from a baseball diamond without problem. Land on it too. =)

Now this isn't the Starmax version below but frankly it's close enough.
http://www.snhobbies.com/product_info.php?cPath=21_36&products_id=443

It will fly pretty much the same.

In my humble opinion, an F-16 is not a good jet to learn on. In fact it's one of the most difficult for a beginner to get a handle on as the flight characteristics are very different than the large wing area of the F-18.

My money is on the F-18. Plus when you are ready it's very easy to upgrade to MUCH more powerful. :)

[vasy]

I've flown THAT exact F18, Man what a hard jet to fly. I'd never suggest anyone going with that jet as 1st EDF. Friend still has it for sale as he hates it. The F16 is about 3 times easier to fly compare to this. (again, not every F16, the not to scale on my list is)

[LuvEvolution7]

Pepperpete...................let me understand this, cause I just want to make sure I understand you correctly. are you saying that the EDF trainer that I suggested to him, would not be a very good first EDF trainer jet? hmmmmmmmmmm, that's a first, a trainer plane not being called a very good trainer. considering that's what the plane was designed for..........training pilots converting to EDF.

back to the topic. I agree with Rafale also as a good first EDF. my Eurofighter is/was great for that. any delta/canard plane is good for a first EDF. they can slow right down and also do a fair clip when wound up. not sure about the Rafale, but on 3S power, the Eurofighter is no speed demon, but fast enough to learn on, while being able to slow right down and float in. if you can find the older version 1 Euro, the motor is much better than the version 2. if you buy it and learn to fly well, you can easily swap out the ESC to a 60Amp and go with 4S power and it has unlimited vertical performance and the speed is more than acceptable. I'm sure the RAfale is just as easily modded, but I don't know anything about that plane at all. I do know that stock motor and fan on the Sapac can easily handle 4S and flies very well with it.

[Pepperpete]

Luvevo,

I think you are confusing me with someone else. It was Vasy who said that Balsa Trainer jets are not good for first EDF people (not me, I didn't even mention it). But I totally agree with him anyhow. Balsa/Fiberglass are way more difficult to repair than Foam jets. Just because it's a trainer doesn't mean it would be a good first jet. It all depends on a person's flying ability and just how new someone really is.

And Vasy I wonder if the Starmax jet is vastly different then that jet. I had someone tell me they were very similar. I could literally take my fingers off the sticks with the F-18 and it flew perfectly. And the one time I had to deadstick (I had installed a massive motor for that size of plane) it glided so far I had to force it to come down. I'm guessing the two jets are more different than I assumed (you know what they say about assuming...:)) My flying buddies Jason and Toby also learned on the Starmax version of the jet. They both agreed it was beyond silly easy to learn on for a jet.

Glenn

Pepperpete...................let me understand this, cause I just want to make sure I understand you correctly. are you saying that the EDF trainer that I suggested to him, would not be a very good first EDF trainer jet? hmmmmmmmmmm, that's a first, a trainer plane not being called a very good trainer. considering that's what the plane was designed for..........training pilots converting to EDF.

back to the topic. I agree with Rafale also as a good first EDF. my Eurofighter is/was great for that. any delta/canard plane is good for a first EDF. they can slow right down and also do a fair clip when wound up. not sure about the Rafale, but on 3S power, the Eurofighter is no speed demon, but fast enough to learn on, while being able to slow right down and float in. if you can find the older version 1 Euro, the motor is much better than the version 2. if you buy it and learn to fly well, you can easily swap out the ESC to a 60Amp and go with 4S power and it has unlimited vertical performance and the speed is more than acceptable. I'm sure the RAfale is just as easily modded, but I don't know anything about that plane at all. I do know that stock motor and fan on the Sapac can easily handle 4S and flies very well with it.

[vasy]

And Vasy I wonder if the Starmax jet is vastly different then that jet. I had someone tell me they were very similar. I could literally take my fingers off the sticks with the F-18 and it flew perfectly. I wonder if the CG was off? My flying buddies Jason and Toby also learned on the Starmax version of the jet. They both agreed it was beyond silly easy to learn on for a jet.
Glenn

CG seemed fine, it didn't track very straight on the pavement, landing were hard at first, flew ok but not that slow and being a small size it turned into a dot fast. It was a good jet after maybe 5th flight and 2 crashes. I saw a bunch of other EDF's people try, some were better then others. I think I'm just biased to that particular F16 as I saw many of them with very good success rate and it was my 1st jet. As I said before, we should just agree to disagree on what the "best" is :yo:

[Pepperpete]

I totally agree with that.

The biggest problem with these jets is the size. My very first jet I made the mistake of letting it get a bit farther away than I intended. And sure enough lost orientation and crashed.

Now this is where the foam comes in. About an hour later, some packing tape and epoxy, and I was flying it again (keeping it MUCH closer this time). The foam seams to repair without any hassles and sometimes seems to make the plane fly even better. Even a plane that looks like a jigsaw puzzle seems to be able to be glued/taped back together to fly another day.

It was the learning curve for the higher speed that caught me off guard. But that only happened on the first flight. And I also learned flying a jet at dusk is not a smart idea. :)

[vettster]

Just to add more fuel to the fire::idea:

The Sappac T-45 foamy was a DREAM to fly. Darn Im going to have to place an order for that one again too:D

[1340]

Would a prop plane be better for a beginner than a jet?

[vasy]

Would a prop plane be better for a beginner than a jet?

For a beginner yes. I'd not recommend to start on the EDF.
I think the topic is Beginner Jet, not beginner plane, they are totally different animals IMHO.

[Max]

For a beginner yes. I'd not recommend to start on the EDF.
I think the topic is Beginner Jet, not beginner plane, they are totally different animals IMHO.

Absolutely. If you cant fly and want to learn to fly, dont waste your time (and/or your instructors time) trying to learn on an EDF jet. Your luck and your money will run out before you get your wings.

[vettster]

Sorry, We were given the impression that you already knew how to fly a Low Wing Aircraft. It would be best to learn how to fly a Prop plane first, and then a LOW wing Secound,(or start with the PTS Mustang from Hanger9 ) and then you will be ready to fly EDFs.

There only foam, But there costly!

[ken park]

I designed this littled prop jet a while back - been flying it for 3-4 years now - When I did switch over too EDF this summer I was already there ready! The "SHARK-E" handles great Hight speed dives or you can go fairly slow a fantastic flyer I even go thermal gliding with it to increase my flight times.

[1340]

Sorry if I gave the impression I was flying planes. I started helis this summer, but lately I'm finding planes interesting also. I WAS warned this hobby would become a compulsion!

[byrocat]

1340, yes it can become a compulsion or even an obsession.

If you're just starting off in the hobby, I'd focus on one aspect to mininize the total cost in terms of time and money, and to maximize your learning and gaining experience. If you keep flipping from one type of flying (eg, helicpters versus fixed-wing), you won't learn faster but will actually be learning more slowly than you would if you learned one type, got solid flying experience (eg at least a season or two) and then started learning the other area.

Not saying that it can't be done, but most people's learning abilities (especially when just starting out) aren't up to the task.

Which explains why skiers learn one event, and so do fencers, or gymnasts.

[Tyler P]

This thing rips! I saw it fly at the Rideau Flyers SMALL Event in the summer. Very quick!

I designed this littled prop jet a while back - been flying it for 3-4 years now - When I did switch over too EDF this summer I was already there ready! The "SHARK-E" handles great Hight speed dives or you can go fairly slow a fantastic flyer I even go thermal gliding with it to increase my flight times.

[ken park]

Thanks Tyler for the kind words on the SHARK-E!

I've ordered a Eflite 70mm fan/motor and set of HL retracts and I hope to try my hand at designing a new EDF sport jet desgin this winter. I hope to have it flying for JC's EDF Jet Rally set for 29 May 2010. - See ya there bud!

Tyler any of the foamy EDF jets etc are fantastic JC said this was a great deal

http://www.hobbypeople.net/gallery/107312.asp

I seen this JC with this F-16 - flys great! - easy hand launch and looks good