09-30-2010 11:21 PM |
stegl |
Re: Where can a person get a supply of butyrate dope?
Quote:
Originally Posted by valhalla
Thanks again Stegel. I guess it all comes down to just the methanol component affecting the paint. Probably not an issue since most of the methanol will be burned off and the remainder diluted with castor oil. The biggest risk would occur with a spill while refuelling. Still, will have to confirm this.
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I guess my point was that if it survives those three chemical/solvents that it would survive anything !!!
Len
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09-30-2010 08:50 PM |
Rabbit |
Re: Where can a person get a supply of butyrate dope?
Great Hobbies has a good supply in small quantities check their web site GreatHobbies .com They carry Brodak and Sig.
If you are looking for larger quantities try Goulet Aircraft Supply gouletaircraft.com out of Winnipeg and Edmonton. They carry Randolph and Stitts Systems. I know you can get some of the colours in quarts for sure yuo can get any colour in gallons.
I believe Goulet will mix a colour if you supply a chip.
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09-30-2010 06:21 PM |
guyl |
Re: Where can a person get a supply of butyrate dope?
PLASTIZED DOPE. Much has been said about dope finish on this thread.
One good precaution is to cut your dope with thinner to half and
half consistency or what your air brush/gun will take (All for Randolph Products)
Then, make your last coat with a PLASTIZED dope. It will make a more flexible
translucent quality. It is made by mixing about 3 drops of CASTOR OIL for
2 ounce of a dope jar. Do not mix no more for a gummy result will result.
As for automotive products I have seen beautiful finish on full size jobs
all to see the paint becoming very brittle after a few years. Now with cars
being built largely with flexible plastic parts maybe their paint products
are more flexible .
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09-30-2010 01:16 PM |
stegl |
Re: Where can a person get a supply of butyrate dope?
Quote:
Originally Posted by valhalla
Hey, that is good to know. Thanks for the tip LGM.
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Gone flying ! It's a great day out
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09-30-2010 11:06 AM |
valhalla |
Re: Where can a person get a supply of butyrate dope?
Quote:
Originally Posted by LGM Graphix
If you are going to use automotive paints, you will want to seal whatever you are painting with an epoxy primer first. If you use a solvent based automotive base/clear system (which is what I would recommend) you can apply your first color coat within 15 minutes of spraying the epoxy primer. This is known as 'wet on wet' and will give you fantastic adhesion. You can mask for your second color an hour after spraying your first color (give it an hour with the epoxy primer under it to fully flash off). After that, if you are spraying your coats evenly and not to heavy, (and the temperature is 17C or higher) you can mask for extra colors within 20 minutes of spraying.
Once all your color is down, spray a 2 part Poly Urethane clear coat.
My suggestion for cost effective paint is to use Omni epoxy primer (I can't remember the letter prefix but the number is 170 and the hardener is I believe 175). Then use Omni base coat paint, be sure to use the MBC (omni base coat) don't use MAE which is an acrylic enamel. Then clear coat it using Omni MC260 quick clear and MH167 Hardener. For reducers, it is really worth spending the extra money and buying the PPG DT870 reducer though. Don't use the Omni reducers, they have to much alcohol and dry the paint to quickly, you lose some adhesion quality that way.
The epoxy primer mixes 4:1 and I add 1 part reducer. The base coat mixes 1:1 (paint and reducer) and the clear mixes 2:1 (clear to hardener) You can reduce the clear if you want, but I don't. Good spraying makes all the difference in the world rather than over reducing. There are flattening agents you can get as well that are added to the clear to reduce the gloss. I just can't remember the numbers right now.
Regardless of what paint you are spraying, work in a well ventilated area and wear a good carbon filter mask, one rated for isocyanates. 24 hours after you spray your clear you can throw whatever nitro content you want at it and it will not hurt it.
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Thanks again LGM. Tons of great information. I love this site. Much appreciated.
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09-30-2010 11:03 AM |
valhalla |
Re: Where can a person get a supply of butyrate dope?
Quote:
Originally Posted by LGM Graphix
Balsa USA has a product called Solartex. You can order it in "Natural" which is an undyed fabric. It is like the coverite except it is much easier to work with, it stretches and shrinks far better. It doesn't require any dope to be added before painting. If you are going to use dope or automotive products it works great. I covered and painted many airplanes with that product in the past. I would definitely look at that, goes on so easily with a standard hobby iron.
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Hey, that is good to know. Thanks for the tip LGM.
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09-30-2010 11:01 AM |
Guest |
Re: Where can a person get a supply of butyrate dope?
Quote:
Originally Posted by valhalla
Thanks again Stegel. I guess it all comes down to just the methanol component affecting the paint. Probably not an issue since most of the methanol will be burned off and the remainder diluted with castor oil. The biggest risk would occur with a spill while refuelling. Still, will have to confirm this.
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If you are going to use automotive paints, you will want to seal whatever you are painting with an epoxy primer first. If you use a solvent based automotive base/clear system (which is what I would recommend) you can apply your first color coat within 15 minutes of spraying the epoxy primer. This is known as 'wet on wet' and will give you fantastic adhesion. You can mask for your second color an hour after spraying your first color (give it an hour with the epoxy primer under it to fully flash off). After that, if you are spraying your coats evenly and not to heavy, (and the temperature is 17C or higher) you can mask for extra colors within 20 minutes of spraying.
Once all your color is down, spray a 2 part Poly Urethane clear coat.
My suggestion for cost effective paint is to use Omni epoxy primer (I can't remember the letter prefix but the number is 170 and the hardener is I believe 175). Then use Omni base coat paint, be sure to use the MBC (omni base coat) don't use MAE which is an acrylic enamel. Then clear coat it using Omni MC260 quick clear and MH167 Hardener. For reducers, it is really worth spending the extra money and buying the PPG DT870 reducer though. Don't use the Omni reducers, they have to much alcohol and dry the paint to quickly, you lose some adhesion quality that way.
The epoxy primer mixes 4:1 and I add 1 part reducer. The base coat mixes 1:1 (paint and reducer) and the clear mixes 2:1 (clear to hardener) You can reduce the clear if you want, but I don't. Good spraying makes all the difference in the world rather than over reducing. There are flattening agents you can get as well that are added to the clear to reduce the gloss. I just can't remember the numbers right now.
Regardless of what paint you are spraying, work in a well ventilated area and wear a good carbon filter mask, one rated for isocyanates. 24 hours after you spray your clear you can throw whatever nitro content you want at it and it will not hurt it.
Just remembered, the epoxy primer is MP170, still don't remember the hardener number for sure, I'll look at the shop today.
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09-30-2010 10:54 AM |
valhalla |
Re: Where can a person get a supply of butyrate dope?
Quote:
Originally Posted by stegl
Most automotive paints today that have a hardiner in them and should be fuel proof. Maybe do some Googling to see what you come up with or you could ask the paint guys if any problem with the following :: lacquer thinner , gasoline, methal alcohol if wiped on the paint. If no reaction then should be safe. Just a thought.
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Thanks again Stegel. I guess it all comes down to just the methanol component affecting the paint. Probably not an issue since most of the methanol will be burned off and the remainder diluted with castor oil. The biggest risk would occur with a spill while refuelling. Still, will have to confirm this.
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09-30-2010 10:51 AM |
Guest |
Re: Where can a person get a supply of butyrate dope?
Balsa USA has a product called Solartex. You can order it in "Natural" which is an undyed fabric. It is like the coverite except it is much easier to work with, it stretches and shrinks far better. It doesn't require any dope to be added before painting. If you are going to use dope or automotive products it works great. I covered and painted many airplanes with that product in the past. I would definitely look at that, goes on so easily with a standard hobby iron.
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09-30-2010 10:28 AM |
stegl |
Re: Where can a person get a supply of butyrate dope?
Quote:
Originally Posted by valhalla
Kevin, thanks for your input.
My plane was originally done as yours, in Sig dope. I'm going to recover it with polyester fabric from a fabric shop, virtually the same as Koverall. I would use Super Shrink Coverite again if it was available, it was a joy to use and convenient with the adhesive already in place, oh well.
The story behind my plane was that it was built and test flown in 1990-91. For whatever reason I stupidly tried a new method of balancing the plane that I had just read about, but didn't confirm the balance with my traditional method. Surprise, the plane was viciously tail heavy and went into the trees shortly after take-off. Lesson learned...the hard way, of course.
So, I'm finally getting back around to working on this plane...lol. I did take advantage of the opportunity while the covering was removed to add some thin plywood gussets to various points on the fuselage to give it a bit more strength and torsional rigidity.
I will most likely take one of the wing panels (still covered) down to the local body shop and have them scope the yellow and red for a match in PPG Concept.
Can anyone confirm that automotive paints are compatible with glow fuel?? I will be running my trusty ST3000 in this bird, and no, not interested in a gas engine alternative.
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Most automotive paints today that have a hardiner in them and should be fuel proof. Maybe do some Googling to see what you come up with or you could ask the paint guys if any problem with the following :: lacquer thinner , gasoline, methal alcohol if wiped on the paint. If no reaction then should be safe. Just a thought.
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