[Sharpy01]

Originally Posted by MikeCam

How much does MAAC pay to the FAI?

How much goes to the ACC?

How many MAAC members have bought FAI competition license?

........ And those questions pretty much stops the debate. lol

[Morison]

Originally Posted by MikeCam

How much does MAAC pay to the FAI?

Technically nothing... but that's more a matter of semantics than substance.

Originally Posted by MikeCam

How much goes to the ACC?

Technically, the entire amount MAAC Pays for FAI affiliation goes to ACC, who then pays an affiliation fee to FAI. I've never seen the books for ACC, so have no idea how much 'margin' they have in the fees that have been set.

Originally Posted by MikeCam

How many MAAC members have bought FAI competition license?

That number would be exactly the number of people who needed one. It's kind of like asking how many people have paid a toll on a specific toll road. In North America there is absolutely no reason to have an FAI competition license unless you are entering a FAI sanctioned event.

So no substantive answers for you, but they would be relatively meaningless anyway. The argument of spending $x for y many people's benefits is a shallow view of the reasons for affilliation, etc.

[MikeCam]

Originally Posted by Morison

Technically nothing... but that's more a matter of semantics than substance.


Technically, the entire amount MAAC Pays for FAI affiliation goes to ACC, who then pays an affiliation fee to FAI. I've never seen the books for ACC, so have no idea how much 'margin' they have in the fees that have been set.


That number would be exactly the number of people who needed one. It's kind of like asking how many people have paid a toll on a specific toll road. In North America there is absolutely no reason to have an FAI competition license unless you are entering a FAI sanctioned event.

So no substantive answers for you, but they would be relatively meaningless anyway. The argument of spending $x for y many people's benefits is a shallow view of the reasons for affilliation, etc.

Nice try. The one guy who tries to answer instead tries to throw off the questions as witchcraft. Funny ----.


Well let's see 2013 was over $45 000.00 to the FAI and ACC. 2014 was budgeted for $46 000.00 but with our membership tanking taking revenue down 32% I see we are only giving the FAI $ 31 000.00.

The nationals cost us over $ 17 000.00 last year. So add the two together and we spent almost $ 50 000.00 to FAI related items. Better then the year before when almost $80 000.00 went to the FAI. So some 25 members (that's the FAI licenses we sold 2 years ago) can travel the world flying toy airplanes. I'm not stopping you, go for it but go completely on your dime if you so choose.

Sorry but spending 7% of our entire MAAC revenue for the year so Guys can come in 40th place flying toy airplanes does not sound like a cup of coffee.

Minions like Lazyass Dennis keep telling us membership is fine. Sure it is, NOT. Look at the numbers, plain as day MAAC needs to tighten the ship and right now. Our membership income went from $ 885 000.00 to $ 747 000.00. Ya Dennis, sure looks like MAAC is drawing in those new members. Get your head out of the sand.

Even scarier is the field registrations going down from $ 13 000.00 to $ 6700.00. Wow did we lose that many fields. Someone explain that please?????
And without saying it doesn't matter because it's just like a toll road, what ever that is supposed to mean.

Insurance was $ 100 000.00 . Newsflash, most of us buy MAAC because we have to to fly at funflys at MAAC fields. Magazine cost us $ 150 000.00. FAI $ 50 000.00, sure easy to see where the trimming will be coming from eh!!!

Bottom line, we brought in $ 778 517.00 in revenue in 2014 and our expenses in 2014 were $ 776 914.00 for a surplus of $ 1603.00 The surplus in 2013 was $ 323 000.00. Wow what a change from the year before. Yup Dennis is bang on, MAAC is just fine and we should do nothing and it will ALL work itself out.

Revenue is going to continue to drop, where are we going to make the cuts, on the insurance, don't think so. No need to bring a motion forward, the FAI money is going to dry up all on it's own, or MAAC will not continue forward.

[Lazy Ace]

Another Henny Penny from the great all seeing Zone D "The sky is falling! The Sky is Falling and its all the fault of our association with the FAI/ACC.

The great all seeing Carnak tells you so. LOL

20 years ago Ken ranted on about the same thing MAAC is still here. MAAC still retains its association with the FAI/ACC

Name calling to make some obscure point how droll. What is it with the kindergarten intellect?

BIG YAWN!!!!! SAME OL SAME OL you guys need new lines.

Dennis

[Morison]

Originally Posted by MikeCam

Nice try. The one guy who tries to answer instead tries to throw off the questions as witchcraft. Funny ----.

You lost me here... I tried to be a bit humerous with my response, but clearly it went over your head. Lets try again.

MAAC gets its FAI affiliation by being a member of ACC, so any and all fees paid go to ACC, not (directly) to FAI. Yes, much of what MAAC pays ends up being paid to FAI by ACC, but I have no idea what that portion is.

The toll road analogy was an illustration that FAI licenses in north america are something that someone would ONLY get if they needed to have one. In fact, there are only so many World Champ pilot positions available in any given year, so the number of FAI licences sold in Canada is capped. (And they are sold by ACC, not MAAC anyway)

For what its worth, if you dig into the shedules included in the financial report you'll see the ACC fee was 19,749 in 2013 and 19,500 in 2014. The difference in the total spend (down to 30,589 from 45,449) was a reduction in the FAI travel subsidy to 9,045 from 24,000. That *could* be from a reduction in teams participating, but I'd ask the question before jumping to conclusions. (The budget number for 2015 split the difference of the two, coming in at 37,700)

Originally Posted by MikeCam

Well let's see 2013 was over $45 000.00 to the FAI and ACC. 2014 was budgeted for $46 000.00 but with our membership tanking taking revenue down 32% I see we are only giving the FAI $ 31 000.00.

What makes you think membership numbers are tanking? I quickly looked at the number of magazines we mailed out in January (largest count) and the difference from Jan 2014 to Jan 2016 was 322 members (down), or a 2;8% drop, although 2016 was up by 57 over 2015.

The drop in revenues shown in the financials have reasons. One of them was a $100,000 donation to the association from the estate of a member. Another reason was - as I recall - a change in how deferred income (3-year memberships) were accounted for and reported.

Originally Posted by MikeCam

The nationals cost us over $ 17 000.00 last year. So add the two together and we spent almost $ 50 000.00 to FAI related items.

I don't know what the 'nationals' line is used for these days, it would be a good thing to ask about for sure. BUT, combining that with FAI is really not appropriate since any national competition won't have anything to do with FAI, with the exception of team trials possibly being held at the nationals.

Originally Posted by MikeCam

Minions like Lazyass Dennis keep telling us membership is fine. Sure it is, NOT. Look at the numbers, plain as day MAAC needs to tighten the ship and right now. Our membership income went from $ 885 000.00 to $ 747 000.00. Ya Dennis, sure looks like MAAC is drawing in those new members. Get your head out of the sand.

The reality is that membership numbers are stable, and have been relatively stable over the long term. That isn't to say there isn't work that can be done on recruitment and retention, but the $885-$747 drop - as mentioned above - has many other factors influencing it.

Originally Posted by MikeCam

Even scarier is the field registrations going down from $ 13 000.00 to $ 6700.00. Wow did we lose that many fields. Someone explain that please?????

As the right question to the right people and you might find out. (I hadn't noticed this so can't speak to why that is. My guess would be a similar situation as membership dues as I think you can now pay for several years of club affiliation so deferred income reporting might make these numbers fluctuate)

Originally Posted by MikeCam

Bottom line, we brought in $ 778 517.00 in revenue in 2014 and our expenses in 2014 were $ 776 914.00 for a surplus of $ 1603.00 The surplus in 2013 was $ 323 000.00.

Again, you're hanging your hat on information that needs perspective to be meaningful. When reading financial statements, variances like this only mean that questions need to be asked in order to get a full understanding. You can't reasonably jump to conclusions based on the raw numbers, particularly in this case.

[Sharpy01]

Originally Posted by Lazy Ace

Another Henny Penny from the great all seeing Zone D "The sky is falling! The Sky is Falling and its all the fault of our association with the FAI/ACC.

The great all seeing Carnak tells you so. LOL

20 years ago Ken ranted on about the same thing MAAC is still here. MAAC still retains its association with the FAI/ACC

Name calling to make some obscure point how droll. What is it with the kindergarten intellect?

BIG YAWN!!!!! SAME OL SAME OL you guys need new lines.

Dennis

....lol Dennis is having difficulty. Got to get your personal attacks straight bud.

Yep, some things never change.

What part of anything in your last post relates to any of the discussion besides being a personal attack...........which usually arrives on que, with any discussion of facts and figures related to opinions that you disagree with.

....poor Kenny.

[4*60]

Good attempt at explaining. Maybe the Board should actually publish more than financial statements. Detailed notes regarding variances etc. might be educational to the general membership leading to less misconceptions.

[Lazy Ace]

Originally Posted by Sharpy01

....lol Dennis is having difficulty. Got to get your personal attacks straight bud.

Yep, some things never change.

What part of anything in your last post relates to any of the discussion besides being a personal attack...........which usually arrives on que, with any discussion of facts and figures related to opinions that you disagree with.

....poor Kenny.

Wow your slipping not as sharp as usual. Let me explain it to you slowly then.
The……..reply…….was…….to…….MikeCam’s………post……….

Nothing……….new………heard……..it……..all………before……..20 years ago……….from………Kenny………..

The………only………thing……….even………close……….to…………what…… ..might……..be………considered…………an………..attack…………is… ……….being………….referred………to………..as………….Lazyass………… .by…………MikeCam………..but………..I……..expect……….that………. .to…………be………….found………..acceptable…………by………..a………… certain………….moderator………..who........just......... happens............to…………hail………..from…………the………sa me………..zone…………It……….seams………..some…………are…………more ………….equal………..than………..others…………Getting......... .to........be............much………..like………..the.... ..........old………….Manitoba………….Zone……….Forum.

Dennis

[Sharpy01]

Originally Posted by Lazy Ace

"kindergarten intellect"
Dennis

.......yep