[bigguy]

Originally Posted by LEE

The FART condition would be enabled with a double switch set to BS (bottom side) or FU (flight up).

Why even put your fingers on the sticks? I am sure I have an autopilot here at work that can fly the whole round for us. LOL ! The only thing you need to remember is to arm it and select excute program. I couldn't resist. Sorry!

[flyloose]

Originally Posted by AirDog

Lee:

I saw somewhere that you can program in the wind speed and direction and actually have the plane compensate with quite a bit of accuracy. Did you find anything on that and if so, do they require an anemometer for changes in current wind speed and direction? Also, would it not require a compass and inclinometer of some kind in the plane (GPS perhaps for that option)?

It is almost getting to the point where you can just throw a switch and sit back and watch your plane fly a programmed routine.

Brendan

Hey Brendan...

I'm getting the impression you don't think much of all this conditions/programming stuff...

[Rick Kroeze]

Originally Posted by isabel

I am curious, why did you decide to do it that way, was it an arbitrary choice (instead of setting up as 6 different conditions?)

Yes, basically you accomplish the exact same thing (as using six) with just the three.

This, of course, makes the other 3 conditions available for other creative ideas.

[LEE]

There are eight conditions available for the 14 and 18 MZ so lots of places to make all kinds of cool testing! So Rick are you saying for negative snaps you flip a switch?
While on the subject, when you are testing for the snaps are you and Donny looking at the plane and making notes or is this done by you over several sessions? The reason I ask is that judging for snaps seems to be a little different from place to place. Some emphasize the nose diversion before the snap, others want a quick rotation with a wobble etc. At the last contest I was heavily criticised for my slow snaps so adjusted to what Ivan K. has on his plane and suddenly I had a much higher score.

I think if we are going for gold at the 2014 worlds, we should watch what the top US pilots are doing and try to emulate as close as possible. If it takes lightning quick snaps and little hesitations on point rolls (hysteresis maybe working here?) maybe we should work on that and discuss it at our clinincs?

[robm]

Originally Posted by LEE

The reason I ask is that judging for snaps seems to be a little different from place to place. Some emphasize the nose diversion before the snap, others want a quick rotation with a wobble etc. At the last contest I was heavily criticised for my slow snaps so adjusted to what Ivan K. has on his plane and suddenly I had a much higher score.

I think if we are going for gold at the 2014 worlds, we should watch what the top US pilots are doing and try to emulate as close as possible. If it takes lightning quick snaps and little hesitations on point rolls (hysteresis maybe working here?) maybe we should work on that and discuss it at our clinincs?

Off goes the lid to the can of worms

[13404]

Eric:

I was just messing with Lee about the wind compensation as we jokingly discussed it a breakfast and thought it might raise a few eyebrows.


Brendan

[Rick Kroeze]

Originally Posted by LEE

So Rick are you saying for negative snaps you flip a switch?

No

Originally Posted by LEE

While on the subject, when you are testing for the snaps are you and Donny looking at the plane and making notes or is this done by you over several sessions?

Both, we've been poking at it for 3 seasons. We've learned a ton and we are still adjusting. It's way cool.

Originally Posted by LEE

The reason I ask is that judging for snaps seems to be a little different from place to place. Some emphasize the nose diversion before the snap, others want a quick rotation with a wobble etc. At the last contest I was heavily criticised for my slow snaps so adjusted to what Ivan K. has on his plane and suddenly I had a much higher score.

More than I wish to type call me one night for a discussion. You are blending a lot of different things in that statement.

Originally Posted by LEE

I think if we are going for gold at the 2014 worlds, we should watch what the top US pilots are doing and try to emulate as close as possible.

Already did that, years ago, but people "up here" have not been willing to adapt.

Originally Posted by LEE

If it takes lightning quick snaps and little hesitations on point rolls (hysteresis maybe working here?)

Roll rate is not a judging criteria. Snaps can look somewhat different and still be proper snaps.

Hysteresis... no.

The clinic that you refer to. Is that judging or training for the Worlds?

[Rick Kroeze]

Originally Posted by robm

Off goes the lid to the can of worms

So weigh in...

You'd be one able to comment. Are Don and I on the right track for a blend of what's being done by the top pilots, setup, and technique in regards to snaps?

[Rick Kroeze]

Although this is Lee's thread it's a bit concerning that this is mostly a how to setup a Futaba 12, 14 or 18. It would be nice to see some discussion about other radios and brands.

I, for one, am curious about what other radios are doing and capable of.

[isabel]

If I may weigh in on the snap setup.

I think people think it is more mysterious than it is. Just go back to the rules. Any snap that shows pitch, yaw and roll, and is rotating upon a point on the plane (be it the CG or whatever) is a snap. It's not more complicated than that so there isn't any issue of style, speed or whatnot. It's not an art, it's a game with clear rules.

I do zero some snaps when I judge sometimes and people may think it's a 'style' or 'speed' issue or whatever but really, the only particular reasons to zero a snap are:
(1) didn't see the pitch or yaw (for example, looked like a roll). Note there is not question of 'how much pitch', as soon as you see it, it's good enough. If you are not sure, then it's the benefit of the doubt.
(2) it didn't rotate upon a point on the plane (e.g. barrel roll style... makes a big spiral 'around' the flight path)
(3) over or under-rotated by 90 degrees (including when someone does that and quickly rolls back to the right spot). I think people do that a lot more than they think they do, and many 'mysterious zeros' on snaps can be explained by this
(4) occasionally somebody puts in the wrong controls, for example there's about one person a year in intermediate at the beginning of the season who attempts to do a negative snap with both rudder and aileron in the same direction.

I think those reasons are straightforward and often that's why a snap is zeroed, but when people see that zero they sometimes jump to the conclusion that the judge 'didn't like the style of the snap'. I think also that sometimes people who try to manipulate the snap too much with their thumbs, will occasionally do one that falls under (1) or (2), because it's hard to be consistent. Also a lot of the times, on a snap someone will commonly over or under rotate by 40-50 degrees, and then when you add up the other mistakes in the figure, it quickly goes down to zero - and looking at their score they will think the judge didn't like the snaps, but really, it's just accumulation of error (precipitated by the fact that a snap is harder to stop consistently than a roll, since it happens faster).

So personally, based on this, when I set up my snaps (several years ago!) I just made sure there was clear, unmistakable pitch and yaw (I don't mean exaggerated, but, there is no reason to give any judge the opportunity to say 'I didn't see it') , and that the airplane clearly drew a cone (rotating on a point on itself). To make sure of that during setup, I usually do a 2 turn snap because it's easier to see the shape. I set it up that way 5 years ago with our first 40% and 14MZ and after a little bit of experimentation at the beginning, I have just transferred my rates from one plane to the other and did minor tweaking each time to account for differently cut control surfaces, etc, but I really haven't changed my snap rates other than that, since they fullfill my criteria: they are snaps according to the rules of the game, and they are easy to stop, so why mess with them. I think it's that simple. I have flown in the US, ON and QC and not had any problems with that. If you set up your snap to be borderline on one of those conditions (like just barely, barely showing pitch), or are trying to finesse it and can't be consistent, I think that's when you expose yourself for zeroing.