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01-30-2004, 01:02 PM | #1 |
RCC Apprentice
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New Advanced Pattern
So whats with this new wussy advanced?javascript:emoticon('')
javascript:emoticon('') Couple of years ago we aaliginedourselves with the USA so expert and masters could compete more easily. javascript:emoticon('') javascript:emoticon('') Then we aligined advanced and ,to me at least, it seemed a good thing. javascript:emoticon('') javascript:emoticon('') Now we go backwards?javascript:emoticon('') javascript:emoticon('') Kiwipaul |
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01-30-2004, 01:59 PM | #2 |
Guest
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Well a proposal was put forth to change the Advanced sequence and the committee voted in favour.
A number of fliers complained about the inverted portion of the sequence, and from what I saw in the summer many guys were having difficulty with it. I dont think the changes make the sequence any less difficult just easier mentally. As for alignment, I have been against that from day one. There are not enough people competing cross border to warrant it, and as the US continues to make their entry classes more difficult it will continue to force guys out of pattern. I know a number of people that left this year because of the advanced sequence. For the handful of competitors who go to the US on a regular basis to compete its not worth destroying pattern in areas where there is no cross border competition. This is a feeling that is getting more widespread every year. |
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01-31-2004, 02:56 PM | #3 |
RCC Apprentice
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Hi Chad
I got the list of pattern comittie members and your name is not on it. Must be a mistake as there would be no representation from Alberta. Your right the pattern comittie did vote in favour of the new "wussy" pattern. However it was not unaminious As for cross border competition, no one would go to a contest anywhere if the schedule was different. You have been to contests in the USA and flown FAI knowing that the schedule was the same as you practised in Canada. The same is true for the worlds champs. FAI is standard all over the world giving everyone from every country the same chance. Do you think CPLR would compete in Canada if the Schedule was different? Would you go to the worlds in Poland or Ireland if the schedules different? Now we had a chance for an advanced contest where we could be competitve be it in the USA or Canada and the opertunity has been lost. kiwipaul |
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01-31-2004, 04:10 PM | #4 | |
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Quote:
Cross border competition is not critical to the success of pattern in Canada, we should be trying to get more fliers involved from our own country rather than worrying about those few who may come here or go there to compete. The US has quite strong pattern community, do you see them running around changing their sequences to match ours so a couple of guys will come down and fly.....not damn likely. We have seen no benefit in the prairies to this, down east they still get the same guys coming and going from the south, and I bet if you look back in BC it has not changed things that much either, so whats the point? I can name a number of people who got fed up with the sequences changing constantly and getting more difficult because we follow the US and ended up leaving pattern. As for FAI, we fly two schedules and also unknowns at the Worlds, its not that tough to learn two of them. At any rate, unanimous or not its through. If you really thing its "wussy" and want to compete in the US and only fly one pattern, Expert and FAI will suit you nicely :P Paul....its only 4 manouvers, you need to be kidding if you say you cant be competitive with a change like that.... |
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02-02-2004, 12:46 AM | #5 |
RCC Junior Contributor
I am: Dave R
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Balance and perspective.
Hi guys,
I think both of you make valid points. It is a fine balance between our pattern community and its desire to involve more people and the ability to go south and compete without learning additional schedules (or in this case 4 maneuvers). Depending on the area we live in, some people never venture south to compete so the additional schedule changes (to be common) are really meaningless. The view becomes that commonality is not the driving force of change but rather the tweaking of the building blocks of precision aerobatic flying. For our area (BC) and the majority of flyers participating in it, the view is to welcome commonality as we have witnessed an increase in US participants in the past couple years, especially in Advanced. Conversely the number of contestants travelling south and competing has, I believe, increased as well. Big numbers... no but a definite increase over what I have witnessed in the past. Is this trend all across the border area's of Canada? I don't know but I hate to hear of guys & gals packing it in because it (Advanced) is "too" difficult. If we make it easier, will they come? Time will only tell so best practice the elements as laid out and be as prepared as possible. Paul, just think of it as Advanced P and F and rise to the challenge for this year. You just might like it! Besides the US guys will be in the same boat, and they say they are still coming up to try and kick your butt. Don't be screwing up the Immelman now! Just some thoughts, |
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02-02-2004, 08:55 AM | #6 |
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This brings up another point, why do we continuously change our schedules basically every two years? I have never understood the reason for changing sequences so frequently. To me its change for the sake of change and not change for a valid reason.
Not all that long ago sequences stayed the same for years and years, guys would come out to contests because they didnt need to practise all that much to be competitive. They could just put on a few flights go to the contest and do relatively well. They didnt need to dedicate all their flying life to pattern (really there are some who dont!!!). Then someone got the bright idea to start changing things and changing them quite frequently.....what happened? Well those sport pattern types actually had to start practising regularily to be competitive, they had to spend large amounts of time doing it...they needed new planes, and eventually decided that is not what I want and quit. I have seen this happen extensively in our area, and from what I have been told this has also happened down east. So why are we changing things around so often? The point of each class is to progress in certain skill sets before moving onto the next class. As long as a sequence contains the correct elements why do we need to change it? The only reason I can think of is to give the lifers of that class a change.....not a very good reason to change. My thought on that is if you are bored with the sequence you must have mastered it and its time to move up, eventually you will get to FAI and you wont ever be bored again Anywho, I abstained on the Advanced sequence. Although I wanted to see it changed from a purely fundamental point of view, actually I beleive the first day it was introduced I made the comment like.....that inverted portion should be upright for Advanced. However, I dont think we should have changed it as guys have already spent the time to learn it. In reference to building blocks, never have I been witness to a negative snap on a horizontal or downline outside of FAI (except an avalanche but they dont count)....so why are they showing up in Advanced.....by the skillset progression would it not make more sense to put something like that in Expert? |
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02-02-2004, 11:19 AM | #7 | |
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I am: Dave R
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Quote:
I think it's important to maintain the building block process so the main components of each "level" should not change too much year in and year out. Small changes like we see with Advanced should not deter one from competing but rather provide the flyer with a challenge to improve his skills and promote advancement to a higher level. The problem is that this Advanced level, due to the complexity (e.g. inverted snap) in last years schedule, is now perceived as "wussy" (Paul's word, not mine.) for those that already fly it. The Intermediate guys probably have a different view If we step back, as you say, and look at the negitive snap in Advanced, it is a hard manouver for some folks. Should it have been in there? Perhaps not. (As most flyers know, it came in as we adopted the US schedules for Advanced and Expert a couple years ago.) As much as I like the ability to promote cross border competition we have no ability to effect changes to the US schedules and that becomes a problem down the road. (As we may see in Expert/Masters next year.) The ability to make small changes to tweak these schedules (from time to time) is important but do we need "full scale" changes to each level every two years? I would say No. As I fly FAI, they change the schedule every two years in an effort to challenge the flyers (and help the judges too!). As Chad said, it's never boring! So.... if I were "King", I would try and keep the Expert common with the AMA's Masters and allow this modified Advanced an oppourtunity to entice some Intermediate guys to move up. In retrospect, the building block scenerio outweighs the inconvienience of nonconforming schedules (Can - US) Finding the right "mix" will always be a moving target though! My thoughts anyway, |
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02-02-2004, 11:56 AM | #8 |
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Here's how I see it after doing this for a while
As someone who has been through a number of FAI sequences, I cant really say that there has been a ton that is "new", in 2000 it was horizontal snaps and rolling circles/loops. Those are really the only "new" manuvers that I have needed to deal with. Everything else was a modification of something I have done in the past. Those ones I have done before were easy to fly, in 5 flights you can make it look pretty good. It took a long time (a couple of years) to get good at the new manuvers. This is the problem that us old guys need to remember.....when you are moving up from Sportsman through the classes you see a lot of "new" manuvers that you have not had to deal with before. It can take a very long time to get good at those "new" manuvers. This becomes less of a problem as you get to the higher classes because most of the manuvers are modifications of ones you have already done. Something like a inverted snap seems really simple to a guy who has flown FAI for a number of years, but think if you have never flown that manuver before in your life....its a little more intimidating. This is why I am really against changing the lower classes frequently, especially the first two. These guys barely get a chance to get it figured out and baam we change it on them. Expert I dont really care about As for the changing US Masters, well there will be a year of differing schedules as we wont get another change until 2006. From what I have heard I question whether it will change to match even then. The best years in pattern that I remember were when the schedules were not aligned and the sequences stayed the same for years and years, I think Expert didnt change for about a decade |
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