[delano013]

Akabek,
Do not let people stop you from buying a 450 clone. The older ones were junk (v1) but they were cheap too and it was basically fly it till you crash then buy a new one. It was cheaper to buy a new one than fix the crashed one.
Now there are many like Tarot that have quality on par, if not better than Align. Do your homework. I have flown Align and the clones and for me...I can't justify the extra money.
Just my $0.02

[akabek]

Originally Posted by delano013

Akabek,
Do not let people stop you from buying a 450 clone. The older ones were junk (v1) but they were cheap too and it was basically fly it till you crash then buy a new one. It was cheaper to buy a new one than fix the crashed one.
Now there are many like Tarot that have quality on par, if not better than Align. Do your homework. I have flown Align and the clones and for me...I can't justify the extra money.
Just my $0.02

I use to have a woodworking shop and learned quickly you need to be rich to buy cheap. I personally look for options and based on what I hear I make my own decision. I was seriously considering buying a new Trex 450 Pro Super Combo for $450 but apparently it is no longer available. A local shop suggested I go for the Trex 450 3GX Pro Super Combo but it is like $600. He suggested this over the Sport Super Combo unit. So like they say, ask 10 people and you will get 10 different answers. I don't mind spending the money but not when I know it will crash. I need some flight time before I buy a $600+ heli. Now I am back to seriously consider the Chaos 450. The kit is $299+$30 shipping and I can get a free upgraded Scorpion motor. It is easier to stomach crashing $300 verses $600 and the reviews seem comparable to Align.

[waylander]

Originally Posted by delano013

Akabek,
Do not let people stop you from buying a 450 clone. The older ones were junk (v1) but they were cheap too and it was basically fly it till you crash then buy a new one. It was cheaper to buy a new one than fix the crashed one.
Now there are many like Tarot that have quality on par, if not better than Align. Do your homework. I have flown Align and the clones and for me...I can't justify the extra money.
Just my $0.02

Sorry but I keep seeing this posted, not just here but other sites, and no, IMO clones are not on par and certainly NOT BETTER. I bought 5 tarot swashplates to use in FBL conversions and 2 of them have sticky spots, the machining was off just enough to make them sticky at one spot. You say you've flown Align. I say I own align, and clones, and there is NO comparison. If you're willing to justify the cheaper cost with lower quality then that is certainly up to you but saying they are just as good? No they aren't. Making yourself feel better that you bought a clone and saved a ton of money and saying they are just as good? Go ahead but they aren't. My opinion of course.

The above is not about value but about actual quality. Align is not what I consider the best, there are better quality helis out there and you pay for that but there are also lower quality than align and you also pay less for that. Nothing wrong with that. I don't try to say align are the best to make myself feel better for owning one, they aren't.

My company has many products made in China, even products made in the SAME plant will be different depending on who buys them... why??? because of the quality control required by the buying company. Everyone knows that in any manufacturing process some of the products will not pass quality control tests so it comes down to how stringent those tests are. The reason certain companies have to charge more is because they will only accept the highest standard and the rejects end up sold to someone else at a lower cost... that's what manufacturing is. The higher the quality control standards of the company buying the product the higher the cost due to the higher number of rejects. Clones have much lower quality control standards, even if they were made in the same plant as align they would be worse because they are not willing to toss products in the trash bin at a loss and will "pass" more than someone else with higher standards.

Great example is Apple, not too many problems with them because they enforce THEIR QC requirements on the manufacturing facility. Think the chinese plant they're made in would reject any of them if they had a choice? They don't get paid for the rejects.

It's simple economics.

This is true for everything... I own Samsung and Pioneer TV's, Best Buys "Dynex" brand is significantly cheaper for the same size, same resolution... would I ever own one? Not a chance... do I look down on those that do because that's what their budget allows? No, I don't but those guys also tend to know better than to say their Dynex is just as good as my Samsung...

Cars? Don't own a Yugo... Never will.

Computers? Don't own an acer... never will.

The list goes on and on.

I received an "epad" as a gift once... at first glance... man what a deal. 10", expandability with usb and microsd slot and runs android... only problem with it was that if I opened more than 2 applications it would slow down so much I couldn't do anything with it and the battery life was only 2-3 hours... Cheap though... man was it cheap....

Yes, these are just my opinions and agree... disagree... doesn't really matter. We all choose how to spend our money and how to justify it. All we can do is pass on our own experiences but the last thing I will say is... these helis are dangerous, there are a LOT of moving parts at extremely high speeds. 10 years ago it would have cost $2000 to even think of entering the hobby, the fact that we can do it now for under $1000 with very good machines is amazing.

[waylander]

Originally Posted by akabek

I recently started flying helis and my most recent purchase is the MSR x. I also use a DX6i and Real Flight6. Thinking ahead to the spring I pickup up a micro P51 Mustang and I would also like to buy or build a 450 heli. I know the Trex helicopter are a good choice but the Chaos brand is very enticing. Has anyone bought one of their helis or bought a kit?

Due to the nature of the first post and the discussion that's been happening in this thread (yes guilty myself) I moved the thread to the rotory wing discussion section.

akabek, if you want to buy one in the classifieds then please start another thread in there asking to buy a heli, not opinions on them.

[delano013]

"You say you've flown Align. I say I own align, and clones, and there is NO comparison. If you're willing to justify the cheaper cost with lower quality then that is certainly up to you but saying they are just as good? No they aren't. Making yourself feel better that you bought a clone and saved a ton of money and saying they are just as good? Go ahead but they aren't. My opinion of course."
Now how do you think I flew Align...I bought one, lol. I'm not trying to make myself feel better about buying a clone, I'm offering an opinion based on my experiences and I stand by them. Suggesting that I don't know what I'm talking about is rather insulting to tell you the truth.
Arabek, do your homework about the brand you are considering. Talk to people where you fly and ask lots of questions. Find out about things like parts availability and costs. One place you don't want to go cheap is the electronics.
Good luck in your endeavour.
Respectfully,
Delano P

[waylander]

It was not meant to be insulting but all I can do is base my response on what youve WRITTEN, which was "I've flown align" not "I've owned align", write what you mean and you won't get misunderstood. I have no idea what you're experience level is or how many helis you've tried. You didn't provide that info.

There are so many opinions out there, each side has their own reasons for them. I base my opinion on having owned 3 different align 450's, right back to the 450 XL. I've owned 4 clones, as well as those 5 swashplates, I can post a video of them sticking if you wish. That is NOT opinion, that is fact, they stick... poor manufacturing or QC, either or... doesn't really matter to me. I have 2 swash plates that I can't use. Every clone I've owned required work to fly well, also a fact.

I will say I've never owned a Tarot before but in alll honesty, I probably never will... no more clones for me and if I'm missing out??? Well I can live with that while I fly my overly expensive helis that flew well right out of the box.

Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice... shame on me.

I will agree that local help, parts support... etc. are important. In the end, the rest of us can only give opinions, you need to buy and try yourself to make your own. Use our experience to help make a decision but the money is yours, the decision is yours, just choose, buy, build and fly. You'll have fun regardless. I started with esky and even with their issues I still had fun. Hell, I even had fun with the original blade cp... now that was a heli that should never have been sold...

[akabek]

My mistake for where I posted my thread, my primary intention was to get more feedback on the Chaos 450 but so far no response on that product. My guess is that it is not very popular in Canada. Through other sites the feedback has been promising.

I agree there are only a hand full of manufacturing plants out there and each company sets there quality control but I disagree that price translates to quality. Many companies reduce their quality control over time and bank on their brand name. I am not saying Align is not a good product. In the past I have purchased product at an attractive price that would not be considered a brand name that I would definitely buy again.

At the end of the day I am just looking for a quality product for a newbie. If it aids in making it easier to fly and the resale value is there than I am game. I just do not believe only brand name products are top notch based on previous experience....granted not with the RC world.

[waylander]

Agreed that price does not ALWAYS equate to quality but it's more often true than not... It's not always about individual quality either but consistant quality. I'm sure there are some individual clones that are as good as Align but I'd easily bet that most are not. Even a poor QC program will produce a few good products.

As you said, many reviews out there, even if they aren't on RCC. Also, even if you took 5 guys and let them try the exact same heli, you'll get 5 different opinions so take them for what they are.

At the end of the day, you just need to make the decision and jump off the figurative cliff. If you later decide that it wasn't the best decision to make?? Well there's no guarantees out there for anything, we make the decisions on the information we have at the time and move on. You'll also probably end up with multiple helis so while I'm sure this seems like a big decision, 5 years from now you'll probably have a few more helis and it won't matter very much WHICH heli you started with, just the fact that you did.

Anyway, welcome to the hobby, I think that I may (yet again) have overstated my opinion so I'll leave this thread with one last thought....if you can't decide... do what I do... get them both!

[xv-townboy]

Originally Posted by waylander

if you can't decide... do what I do... get them both!

Thats the best advice yet!

[akabek]

Is two really enough. Maybe I will just splurge and get the Trex 450 3GX Pro Super Combo. Go big or go home....now to find a deal