[scaleguy]

Originally Posted by can773

Hi Jim,

Your plane may be quiet, but the vast majority of IMAC models come no where near meeting 92 dB @ 3m, thats the simple reality. Until harsher rules are put in place and enforced, they will continue to be loud.

The IMAC box is functionally non-existent, or there would not be the overfly discussions. The ACS will never achieve what a properly laid out box can achieve because the scoring is left to biased judges.

Chad,

IMAC rules do not require 92db @3m. Why are you trying to impose Patern rules on IMAC events? Do you want AL Pitchers to bat to? Apples and oranges.

Imac Rules as enforced by the AMA is 96db @25 feet so what does 92db @3m have to do with AMA rules?

There are NO MAAC noise rules. If a club has it's own noise standards and want's to employee them then that is fine.

At ALL of the current IMAC events scheduled for 2010 not one single field has an issue with noise. Yes we are a few contest less this season but NOT a single one can be attributed to noise as the derrivitive factor to their loss. We lost Otterville due to inaccurate overflight issues. Chatham is gone due to Windmills beeing errected off the end of the runway so where and what fields were lost due to noisy IMAC aircraft?

[Guest]

Jim, you said your model meets 92 @ 3 meters which is why I followed along that path. I realize IMAC rules are at 25'.

I am not trying to impose anything, thats a bit of paranoia! I have no involvement in IMAC and dont plan to, although I will probably fly at an event or two here for fun. However it will be with an electric model that will be quieter than anyone else.

I dont live in Ontario, I have no idea why you guys are losing fields for. If noise was no issue then why is it so passionately discussed on the internet? If you read pattern forums this is not a regular topic of conversation. Every IMAC forum I read losing fields, noise and overfly are huge issues that have yet to be resolved.

At the end of the day, I have more experience with being noise tested than the average joe. No one will ever argue that pattern models are extremely quiet for their performance, so we obviously have done something right over the years. I am simply sharing my experience, if you don't want to hear it thats fine.

[scaleguy]

Chad,

Fair enough and recognize your experience and comitment to Pattern. Their have been NO fields lost, to my best recolection, in Ontario due to noise so that is why it get's my back up when people, not targetting you, come on to public forums and generalize their perception of what is happenning as opposed to hard facts.

Again i am unaware of any loss of field issues anywhere in Canada due to IMAC type airplanes in the last few years. If someone has hard data proof and can post it be my gest.

As foe qiuiet electrics that is almost as muc ofh an oxi-moron as "Milirary Intellegence". With electrics it's pretty much left to prop noise but we all KNOW how much that can be.....................

[scaleguy]

Originally Posted by can773

I dont live in Ontario, I have no idea why you guys are losing fields for. If noise was no issue then why is it so passionately discussed on the internet?

Ummm where in RCC has it been said we are loosing flying sights due to noise and IMAC airplanes in particular?

Perhaps we should ban Rubber powwered aircraft as they will certainly exceed 1 db for sound testing?

Especially with those ratty-ass hardwood thrust washers.....

[Guest]

Originally Posted by can773

Any major pattern event, every plane is testing on every flight, you fail, you get tested after the flight, you fail that, you lose the round. Harsh but effective!

I was part of the Scale Worlds once and I know the sound equipment was available but it was only used if there was an official protest or the judges ordered it so. In my opinion only the pattern guys would be so ---- to insist on a test of the same plane twice every flight. Could be why we see less and less people in Canada showing an interest in pattern. I have always thought that is why Scale Aerobatics took off the way it did a little less ---- but retaining the skill level. By the way I have attended contests on both sides of the border that has a pattern discipline and never have I seen sound meters used like you describe. I can only think this is done at the world class level because you guys cannot be trusted to play by the rules and given the chance everyone of you would cheat.

Dennis

[Mike Sebastien]

Pattern has stringent sound test because FAI has dictated it and the pattern community in North America has accepted it and has dealt with it very effectively. You have to realize that FAI is a international body and it members are largely composed of European nations. Sound is a huge issue there because of population density. I lived in Germany for a number of years and flew at local airfields. If you didn't have VERY effective muffler on your airplane they wouldn't even let you bring your airplane out of the car. This was in the 1980's.

IMAC is going through a evolution concerning noise the same as the Pattern community did in the 80's. AMA is forcing IMAC to get there house in order and start enforcing existing rules. The next SA Nats at Muncie will have compulsory noise testing and lot of guys know they will fail.

Should MAAC have Noise limits? Knowing the attitude concerning rules I doubt MAAC will ever have a noise limit. They may recommend something in the future and let the local clubs deal with it. As Canada grows will we start losing fields to noise unless we start doing something.

It really isn't difficult for a aircraft to be quiet. Being quiet though costs money, a 3 bladed prop and Cans can add over $700 to a IMAC aircraft and most guys aren't interested in spending the money. So there is the problem, unless you are forced to be quiet most guys won't spend the money and do it.

Noise is a very important issue for me. I have 75% loss of hearing as I was in Air Force for 30 years and the constant exposure to aircraft screwed my hearing. I try my best to keep my aircraft quiet so I don't cause problems for the other guy. I think it is being polite to be quiet.

[Guest]

Originally Posted by scaleguy

Ummm where in RCC has it been said we are loosing flying sights due to noise and IMAC airplanes in particular?

Perhaps we should ban Rubber powwered aircraft as they will certainly exceed 1 db for sound testing?

Especially with those ratty-ass hardwood thrust washers.....

I said forums, not RCC, and I am not even sure I specifically referred to Canada.

[Guest]

Originally Posted by Propworn

I was part of the Scale Worlds once and I know the sound equipment was available but it was only used if there was an official protest or the judges ordered it so. In my opinion only the pattern guys would be so ---- to insist on a test of the same plane twice every flight. Could be why we see less and less people in Canada showing an interest in pattern. I have always thought that is why Scale Aerobatics took off the way it did a little less ---- but retaining the skill level. By the way I have attended contests on both sides of the border that has a pattern discipline and never have I seen sound meters used like you describe. I can only think this is done at the world class level because you guys cannot be trusted to play by the rules and given the chance everyone of you would cheat.

Dennis

Dennis

Re-read, you only get tested twice if you fail the first test prior to the flight.

I don't make the rules, they are what they are.

They enforce them at the World Championships, because its an FAI sanctioned contest and you have to enforce the FAI-F3A rules and thats what they are. You should know this if you were truly involved in organizing the scale worlds, I am sure you enforced the F4D (or whatever scale is) rules.

If I get bored I shall post a video for all of you to show you what it looks like. Since it seems some are having a hard time getting it!

[Mike Sebastien]

Originally Posted by can773

Since it seems some are having a hard time getting it!

LOL ........

[reo]

Originally Posted by Mike Sebastien

Should MAAC have Noise limits? Knowing the attitude concerning rules I doubt MAAC will ever have a noise limit. They may recommend something in the future and let the local clubs deal with it. As Canada grows will we start losing fields to noise unless we start doing something.

I agree with Mike that MAAC itself will likely never impose noise limits and nor should they. I don't think that would fall into the mandate of the organization, and quite fankly would be a huge can of worms.....really how do you enforce it? and who will enforce it? If someone doesn't comply, will their MAAC card be pulled? I really doubt that the organization even wants to think about going there.

I know there are clubs enforcing noise bylaws but I think they find it difficult to do on a daily basis and unless done with a modicum of tact it can certainly cause dissention at the field and in the club.

That said, I have lived within a 1/4 mile of my field for 30+ years and know first hand how annoying it can be to listen to an improperly muffled/propped aircraft on a nice calm evening while we are out on the sundeck trying to visit with the neighbors or whatever. Noise is a real and serious issue when it comes to keeping fields and the rural neighbors will not tolerate having someone come out from the city and 'harsh their mellow' so to speak for very long before they insist that their councilman and council does something about it. WE live within 1 mile from a lake that was used for full scale boat racing when I was a kid (many years ago!!), and the high pitched noise went on every weekend from morning 'till night the whole summer and could be heard for miles, they only lasted one season and that was it....why....noise!!

Ron