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Old 01-06-2017, 08:59 PM   #21
OLD PRAIRIE RED NECK
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Re: Glow engines running on diesel


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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsparky View Post
Now if you want to talk a walk back in time.. I have never seen one myself but I knew some older mechanics that worked on them.. but some of the old large equipment that worked up north.. they use to start them on gasoline and then switch over to diesel once the engine had warmed up..
International/McCormick WD4 and WD6 tractors had a complete spark ignition system on the right side of the engine and a complete diesel injection system on the left side.
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Want a new twist on things... A lot of city buses run on natural gas.. ok fine.. but they use a diesel engine.. cummins to be exact .. they pull the injectors out and replace them with spark plugs.. using the crank position sensor for timing to fire a spark ignition for the plugs.. a diesel engine running natural gas using spark plugs..
Interesting! So - that is how they do it!
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Old 01-07-2017, 08:30 PM   #22
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Re: Glow engines running on diesel

It starts just fine at -15 but - 20 its had it with out a block heater but then again my old gas truck is the same . mine had a ether system but it has never been used in the time I have owned it .anyway I just thought it was worth mentioning .

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Opps !! you plugged it in.. that is preheating.. try without plugging in.. up there in the backwoods of Parry Hoot... a place I spent too much time around.. but the winds off the bay... good luck....

As for the case not having glow plugs .. that would tell me that the machine is either 30 + years old , or it may have come up from the southern states at some point in it's life..

I have not seen a machine that did not have some kind of starting aid in over 30 years... back then glow plugs where just starting to come around.. the norm was to have an ether system that was activated by a push button on the dash.. the other method that is still used today is,, as Merv has said an inlet air heater.. most times this comes in the form of and electric powered element .. but in the case of JCB equipment and a few others .. they use a small injecter in the air inlet that burns a small flame to warm the incoming air..

Hence all the warning on the engine " EXPLOSION HAZARD " . do not use ether...

Now if you want to talk a walk back in time.. I have never seen one myself but I knew some older mechanics that worked on them.. but some of the old large equipment that worked up north.. they use to start them on gasoline and then switch over to diesel once the engine had warmed up..

Want a new twist on things... A lot of city buses run on natural gas.. ok fine.. but they use a diesel engine.. cummins to be exact .. they pull the injectors out and replace them with spark plugs.. using the crank position sensor for timing to fire a spark ignition for the plugs.. a diesel engine running natural gas using spark plugs..
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Old 01-07-2017, 09:29 PM   #23
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Re: Glow engines running on diesel

Lets try this again , glow engines are nothing like diesels . the difference is glow engines burn the mixture just like gas engines , A diesels mixture explodes or detonates due to heat and pressure . it's as simple as that . the glow plug is a catalyst that does indeed stay lit but not for the purpose of causing detonation . due to the combination of plug heat .compression and fuel type you can control the timing in a glow engine , that is why you have different glow plug # so you can change the timing or the point the mixture is lit , from that point there is a controlled burn like all ignition engines do . if you could see inside a gas or glow engine you would see after the mixture was lit the flame would burn across the top of the piston increasing pressure slowly as it pushes the piston down . just because the glow engine is dependent on a specific compression to light the mix does not change the fact that there is no diesel affect in the process . the mix in a glow engine is at no point pushed to the point that it detonates(diesels) (it lights and burns slowly in comparison to a diesel) . I understand this misunderstanding because most people do not fully understand what is actually going on in a gas engine . if a golw engine was truly running on the diesel principal it would no longer need the glow plug once running as in the case with all diesel engines, now many will say I burned out a plug and mine stayed running and that would be correct because the catalyst was still in there but if the element fell out completely it would quit because it s not dieseling it's burning. . cheers Roger



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Actually glow and diesel model engines are very close to the same. It is the sparkies that are different. I have a diesel here with a broken crankshaft and bent rod that are a result of too much compression and too rich a mixture. Glow engines are a form of compression ignition. They are actually a diesel engine with the starting glow plugs on all the time.

My David Brown tractor doesn't have glow plugs and will not start plugged in or not below freezing. There is provision to give it a shot of ether in the intake for cold weather starting. My Dodge Cummins has no glow plugs either, it has a heating element in the intake to heat the intake air charge and will start down to -20C without being plugged in.
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Old 01-07-2017, 11:43 PM   #24
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Re: Glow engines running on diesel

Glow plug (model engine)
The ignition is accomplished by a combination of heating from compression, heating from a glow plug and the catalytic effect of the platinum within the glow plug on the methanol within the fuel.
Technically a glow plug engine is fairly similar to a diesel engine and hot bulb engine in that it uses internal heat to ignite the fuel, but since the ignition timing is not controlled by fuel injection (as in an ordinary diesel engine), or electrically (as in a spark ignition engine), it must be adjusted by changing fuel/air mixture and plug/coil design (usually through adjusting various inlets and controls on the engine itself.) A richer mixture will tend to cool the filament and so retard ignition, slowing the engine. This "configuration" can also be adjusted by using varying plug designs for a more exact thermal control. Of all internal combustion engine types, the glow plug engine resembles most the hot bulb engine, since on both types the ignition occurs due to a "hot spot" within the engine combustion chamber.

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Old 01-08-2017, 08:24 AM   #25
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Re: Glow engines running on diesel

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Originally Posted by OLD PRAIRIE RED NECK View Post
Glow plug (model engine)
The ignition is accomplished by a combination of heating from compression, heating from a glow plug and the catalytic effect of the platinum within the glow plug on the methanol within the fuel.
Yea !!! what Merv says....

But just to add a bit.. glow engines are something between a gas and a diesel,, they need the glow plug to start the ignition like a gas but then rely on the compression..

The filament in the plug is kept glowing by the heat and compression of the engine running.. the faster the engine runs the hotter the filament gets.. there by advancing the timing..


BTW Merv.. I had to look up those hot bulb engines.. never heard of them before.. but pretty cool... and yes they would be almost exactly like a glow engine..

I once ran across a very old single cylinder 2 stoke diesel that was from a time when diesels where originally designed to run on corn oil..

I also have a glow plugged engine that runs on gasoline.. before OS came out with theirs.. think they stole my idea....
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Old 01-11-2017, 01:22 AM   #26
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Glow engines running on diesel

A great read! Good stuff. I think it would be great if someone brought some decent "true" 60-90-120 sized diesels onto the RC market.
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Old 01-11-2017, 08:02 AM   #27
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Re: Glow engines running on diesel

PAW makes a good line of diesels, I believe 60 is as big as they go. Davis Diesel sells heads for the 40 size line and they do one for a 160 also. Give them a try and let us know.
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Old 01-11-2017, 08:43 AM   #28
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Re: Glow engines running on diesel

http://www.davisdieseldevelopment.co...price_list.htm They have heads for the .46, .75 .90 and 1.6 OS and the .45 Supertigers. Not listed, but I think they did the OS .10 and others too. It is not really hard to make a head if you have a lathe. Just the rod and crank need to be up to the task. A lot of motors are not. A smaller carb is usually nicer to operate too, like the LA line. Just don't overcompress them. A burbling run is good. I should get my PAW .06 going some day when it warms up.
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Old 01-11-2017, 03:16 PM   #29
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Re: Glow engines running on diesel

Wow, DD has quite a selection to choose from.
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Old 01-11-2017, 06:32 PM   #30
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Re: Glow engines running on diesel

still flat out wrong glow engines are not diesels for the reasons above . Please ask me what part you are not understanding so I can help you better understand . gas and glow burn fuel, diesels detonate the mixture , if a gas or glow engine were to detonate you would have a big problem . that is the only difference that matters and the difference that makes a diesel a diesel . that is also why you can put a spark ignition on a glow engine and still run golw and it will work just fine . also a diesel does not need a injector pump to make it run it needs a injector pump so it does not run away and blow up , you can just dump fuel in a diesel and it will run but it will over rev and blow up. all gas and glow engines need a source for ignition . diesels do not. hence compression ignition. a diesel glow plug is no more than a block heater to warm the fuel but even for the diesels that have them they are not need for the diesel process.. a glow plug in a glow engine is the source of ignition and that ignition is timed by the heat of that plug. you can advance or retard timing on a glow engine just like a park ignition engine by using a hotter or colder plug . hot plugs advance timing cold plugs retard timing .
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