[Phil202]

Originally Posted by moo

legs? conflicting shipping instructions?

I think they met "logs" as log books and technical logs...

[CF105]

I'd heard the same thing Mike is saying, quite some time ago. Recalling a "W5" story from when I was a kid, there had been a number of nasty incidents involving former RCAF/CAF planes killing people in spectacular fashion (one that stands out was a Sabre failing to lift off, running off the runway, through a fence and then into a major road). So there is certainly "cause" for such restrictions.

I don't know that it is *still* impossible though, or what the specific rules are. Here in Moncton, at one time there was a company that converted F-86's to drones & test-flew them from McEwen's airfield. Retired RCN Sea Furies have been used for at least one Reno air racer. The Fairey Fireflies owned & flown by Vintage Wings and the Shearwater Aviation Museum are both former RCN birds (by way of Ethiopia). And there's a guy in California flying an ex-RCAF CF-104... a 2-seater I believe.

Could be the rules forbid the CAF from selling airworthy aircraft... but there's nothing preventing an owner from returning it to flying condition?

Don't know... what I *DO* know is, I want someone to restore & fly a CF-100!

[mwavesdave]

I'd be happy with a nice sized RC CF-100!!!

[JDJetJock]

Guys,

Let me bring some clarification about the Canadian Government selling military aircraft. I'm an RCAF senior officer previously responsible for the T-33 and Tutor Snowbird fleets in the RCAF...I've sold a few aircraft. After the RCAF declares an aircraft surplus to requirements, the RCAF technical authorities decide what to do with the aircraft. If the aircraft are airworthy, then they can be sold as-is through Public Works and Government Services Canada (PWGSC), with agreement by the US if the military aircraft were of US design and exported to Canada. If the aircraft is not airworthy (usually due to expired structural fatigue), or if the aircraft is destined to be mounted on a pedestal, the aircraft is permanently render unflyable by cutting engine mounts, spars, wing mounts and electrical bundles.

Some examples:
1. When the CAF decided to cease T-33 operations in approx 2001, all aircraft were sold to the public in as-is condition. Since the T-33 is a Lockheed product, the US state department had to be consulted under ITAR regulations for the sales. Not being a fighter aircraft, the T-33s sold like hot cakes across Canada and the US. These aircraft were perfectly airworthy...note that the T-33 did not have a fatigue life. These aircraft are normally flown under TC or FAA experimental permits.

2. When the CAF decided to contract out pilot training in 2000, a large number of CT114 Tutor aircraft became surplus. Many of the airworthy aircraft were sold as-is to the public, approx 20 were put in storage to be used for future Snowbird aircraft, some put in storage to be later broken down into parts, and some were rendered unserviceable for display or sold as scrap. Unfortunately, some private organizations attempted to repair these disposed/scrap Tutors and put them on e-bay for sale. Although very unethical to sell these aircraft, it is buyer beware, and if an accident were to happen, an investigation would reveal the true history of the aircraft. The RCAF has records of all disposed aircraft.

3. The CAF ceased CF-5 operations in the late 90's. Most aircraft had just been refurbished with new avionics and wings. These aircraft were advertised for sale, but the US state dept prohibited their sale to private individuals due to their installed weapon control systems, etc. Botswana bought 20+ of them, and the Greek gov't almost bought the rest. This deal fell through with the USN purchasing the remaining aircraft just a few years ago and I believe some are in service as Aggressors.

On the topic of airworthiness, the RCAF must comply with the Aeronautics Act just like Transport Canada for implementing approved certification and airworthiness regulations. The RCAF has to certify all its aircraft fleets to civil regulations or RCAF regulations, or both in some cases depending on systems on-board the aircraft. In the end, all RCAF aircraft fleets have Type Certificates and each aircraft has a "certificate of airworthiness" or equivalent certifying that each aircraft is safe for flight, was maintained/repaired by an approved maintenance organization under an approved maintenance program by certified technicians.

Hope this answers some questions and dispels some myths.

Cheers,

[Mike Sebastien]

Thanks for clarifying

[HAL9KPCM]

Great explanation... thanks!

[Phil202]

Thanks for all the info Jeff!

[kev-o]

Well there ya have it from someone in the know , thanks Jeff

[Max]

I learned something too!

Thanks Jeff

[CF105]

Awesome info. Thanks Jeff.

When there were some high-power rocket launches being held at CFS Mountainview circa 1999-2003 or so, there were T-33's and Tutors in open storage, and partially-disassembled CF-5's in some of the hangars. One of the guys had an unexpected "reunion" with the Tutor he'd soloed in back in the 60s. It's kinda sad to see a plane "put out to pasture". Always wondered what happened to all those birds.