[Dave Larkin]

When I was on the MAAC Board I suggested a membership class for 'Competition Supporters'. It would be voluntary whether one joined this membership class. The idea was rejected with horror by the rest of the Board (sport R/C flyers to a man) because they were appalled at the suggestion of what they saw as an elite membership.

All the associations in the Aero Club of Canada have the same situation whereby they have a mix of competitors and non-competitors. Their Aero Club fees are determined on their total membership. So if MAAC established this 'Gold' class it would not change our fee to the Aero Club. The Aero Club would not accept an application by MAAC to redefine who its membership was, as it would have to do the same for all the other associations.

There are two issues here for Ken K. He does not want it to be possible for Canadians to compete in World Champs FAI events. He also does not recognize any type of model flying with which he is not familiar, as he showed when he was Zone Director, and would have nothing to do with the Control Line, SAM or R/C competition club events in Manitoba. This had a lot to do with why an extraordinary General Meeting was called to get him to step down.

Another topic that comes up is why MAAC does not support other events like IMAC and Top Gun. The answer is that Canadian participants in Top Gun are not selected competitively from across Canada. It's a private event. I'm not sure how IMAC works this, but if they compete for a team, then I would say they have a case to apply for MAAC support. However if they just go to the event, there is no case. There is as yet no FAI Jet event, but I was certainly willing to support MAAC funding for a Jet Team for the World Jet event, provided there was a valid team selection process. I can't claim to be fully informed, but I have never heard of a request being submitted to MAAC by IMAC flyers for funding. Of course neither IMAC nor Top Gun are in any way world championship events, FAI or otherwise.

Dave Larkin

[ronnieo]

Good post Dave..and the only Gold-member I'm familiar with is Austin Powers...

[Sharpy01]

Originally Posted by Dave Larkin

When I was on the MAAC Board I suggested a membership class for 'Competition Supporters'. It would be voluntary whether one joined this membership class. The idea was rejected with horror by the rest of the Board (sport R/C flyers to a man) because they were appalled at the suggestion of what they saw as an elite membership.

ok, history..... times change.

Originally Posted by Dave Larkin

All the associations in the Aero Club of Canada have the same situation whereby they have a mix of competitors and non-competitors. Their Aero Club fees are determined on their total membership. So if MAAC established this 'Gold' class it would not change our fee to the Aero Club. The Aero Club would not accept an application by MAAC to redefine who its membership was, as it would have to do the same for all the other associations.

...of course they wouldn't.

Originally Posted by Dave Larkin

There are two issues here for Ken K. He does not want it to be possible for Canadians to compete in World Champs FAI events. He also does not recognize any type of model flying with which he is not familiar, as he showed when he was Zone Director, and would have nothing to do with the Control Line, SAM or R/C competition club events in Manitoba. This had a lot to do with why an extraordinary General Meeting was called to get him to step down.

..... just can't resist making any discussion about change to FAI anything a personal issue.
Dave, that is ancient history and you really don't know the local story behind any of that nonsense in our zone besides what "like-minded" folks shared with you those many years ago............. many have since departed so it will be tough to back up your memory on this ancient history. Give it up already. Got news for you dude, I know many more old-timers round this zone than you and more people were upset by the actions of the few you knew. It's taken 4 ZD's and a lot of good work to repair the personal and intra-club relationships that this so-called extraordinary action caused.

Again, stick to what you know.

Originally Posted by Dave Larkin

Another topic that comes up is why MAAC does not support other events like IMAC and Top Gun. The answer is that Canadian participants in Top Gun are not selected competitively from across Canada. It's a private event. I'm not sure how IMAC works this, but if they compete for a team, then I would say they have a case to apply for MAAC support. However if they just go to the event, there is no case. There is as yet no FAI Jet event, but I was certainly willing to support MAAC funding for a Jet Team for the World Jet event, provided there was a valid team selection process. I can't claim to be fully informed, but I have never heard of a request being submitted to MAAC by IMAC flyers for funding. Of course neither IMAC nor Top Gun are in any way world championship events, FAI or otherwise.

Dave Larkin

...... and, my proposal for a single "MAAC Promotional Fund" would have the flexibility to work for all the scenarios and always be accountable to the elected board from year to year.

......just saying.

[Dave Larkin]

Marc,

As an Airforce navigator, I was frequently posted to Winnipeg and was a member of the Winnipeg R/C Club 'The Electric Chickens,' whose decal I had on my flight box for many years. Also my wife is from Winnipeg so that's another reason why I know Winnipeg well. My comments were entirely factual. At that time you had only just entered the hobby.

As for your promotional funds - the Zone director has this if he chooses to use it, Some, who correspond here rather frequently, chose to spend it on kits and dish them out at meets. Others supplement their travel budget.

I suggest modellers ask their ZDs how their Discretionary Fund is spent, and give them suggestions if they want it spent otherwise. The ZD is accountable at the AZM. MAAC does not audit the intent of their spending, just wants receipts. The MAAC Board does not scrutinize how each of its members spend their money. And it is clear from this correspondence that a lot of modellers don't know that this money is available to each zone. I'm not criticizing Peter who I'm sure has a handle on this.

We have had some interesting suggestions on spending in this thread. As the money, or at least some of it, is budgeted and available, and has been for nearly 20 years, I suggest that folks go for it.

Dave

[cf100]

Originally Posted by Dave Larkin

When I was on the MAAC Board I suggested a membership class for 'Competition Supporters'. It would be voluntary whether one joined this membership class. The idea was rejected with horror by the rest of the Board (sport R/C flyers to a man) because they were appalled at the suggestion of what they saw as an elite membership.

All the associations in the Aero Club of Canada have the same situation whereby they have a mix of competitors and non-competitors. Their Aero Club fees are determined on their total membership. So if MAAC established this 'Gold' class it would not change our fee to the Aero Club. The Aero Club would not accept an application by MAAC to redefine who its membership was, as it would have to do the same for all the other associations.

There are two issues here for Ken K. He does not want it to be possible for Canadians to compete in World Champs FAI events. He also does not recognize any type of model flying with which he is not familiar, as he showed when he was Zone Director, and would have nothing to do with the Control Line, SAM or R/C competition club events in Manitoba. This had a lot to do with why an extraordinary General Meeting was called to get him to step down.

Another topic that comes up is why MAAC does not support other events like IMAC and Top Gun. The answer is that Canadian participants in Top Gun are not selected competitively from across Canada. It's a private event. I'm not sure how IMAC works this, but if they compete for a team, then I would say they have a case to apply for MAAC support. However if they just go to the event, there is no case. There is as yet no FAI Jet event, but I was certainly willing to support MAAC funding for a Jet Team for the World Jet event, provided there was a valid team selection process. I can't claim to be fully informed, but I have never heard of a request being submitted to MAAC by IMAC flyers for funding. Of course neither IMAC nor Top Gun are in any way world championship events, FAI or otherwise.

Dave Larkin

I became the Manitoba Zone Director in 1995 when no else wanted the job, I was the only volunteer at that time to put up their name. After a couple of month of volunteering as the rep, a battle arose within the Board of Directors over the Aero Club of Canada fees. In the mean time I organized the largest scale contest in the zone's history, Scale 96 at Grabber Green, a resounding success with over 80 competitors along with other events.

I supported the position of the MAAC president of the time Rick Reid, Dave Larkin supported another position, plus there was the issue of the huge $$ loss at the Brandon Nats but that is another story and the Rick Reid MAAC presidency and his battle with Dave Larkin is another story.

Some in my zone did not agree with my position and started a petition at the local hobby store for the extra ordinary meeting, thus I unvolunteered myself, extra ordinary meeting over toy airplane contest, not worth the hassle sort of like park flyers not wanting to join MAAC - politcs.

In the end nothing has really changed in Manitoba NW Ont. Zone, contests have all but vanished from this zone, fun flies flourish, park flying growing, FAI all but dead.

I support all types of flying in MAAC, I competed at the Nats in Scale, I'm not sure when all the problems all started in MAAC, before my time, either at the Brandon Nats or from the Aero Club of Canada rep and the MAAC president facing off, I just happen to volunteer in the middle of that MAAC storm. I suppose I was naive to the MAAC politics, I had no agenda like to be on the board of directors or be MAAC president or the FAI or ACC rep, I sure got an education in the ruthlessness of some of the FAI types fighting for their funding.

[FastnLow]

Why is it that so many have volunteered there time to help maac yet you feel the need to take away support from members that are your fellow countrymen and have a dream to represent there country in international competition. Would it not be the duty as the Canadian governing body and it's members to support them? 3 pages of people patting themselves on the back on what selfless actions and dedication they have to maac and there zones. " I did this and I did that and I hosted this and I organized that".....Thank you buuuut I know none of you did any of that on there own and needed help and support of others whether it was bugging venders for prizes or members for labour. fAI competitors represent team Canada not team ME. Some of you need a dose of patriotism!
I don't think segregating the skilled competition flyers and punishing them for success is at all an intelligent move.
I'm proud my dues help them and would like to see it help other competitors as well. Whether it helps the fai team travel or thelp the IMAC guys form a team for the wolrlds I'm all for it and wouldn't even mind buying pallets of large Glad bags for the scale contestants JK

[Sharpy01]

Originally Posted by Dave Larkin

As for your promotional funds - the Zone director has this if he chooses to use it, Some, who correspond here rather frequently, chose to spend it on kits and dish them out at meets. Others supplement their travel budget.

..... Dave, try hard to put something out there that doesn't have the deflectional twist from the conversation. What Dave is now trying to suggest is that the promo fund was wasted under my tenure...... sign....... Again, his information came from those in our zone who believed I was a threat to things FAI. Fact is, I would take our zone's allotment of funds which I don't believe was more than 1000 bucks at the time, negotiated directly with manufacturers, distributors, hobby shops to spin that into double+ that amount in R/C Product and give them to clubs who were hosting events..........so they could raffle them off ........ usually turning that into more cash than the product was worth retail .........

..........the clubs would then use the funds raised to support their club and it's events. Thought it was pretty innovative.

Originally Posted by Dave Larkin

I suggest modellers ask their ZDs how their Discretionary Fund is spent, and give them suggestions if they want it spent otherwise. The ZD is accountable at the AZM. MAAC does not audit the intent of their spending, just wants receipts. The MAAC Board does not scrutinize how each of its members spend their money. And it is clear from this correspondence that a lot of modellers don't know that this money is available to each zone. I'm not criticizing Peter who I'm sure has a handle on this.

.......... no, your criticizing someone else. We get that.

Originally Posted by Dave Larkin

We have had some interesting suggestions on spending in this thread. As the money, or at least some of it, is budgeted and available, and has been for nearly 20 years, I suggest that folks go for it.

No, Dave..... what is interesting is that you failed to peep about my proposed MAAC Promotional Fund", but you choose to dump in here to keep stoking the fire and keep the supposed two sides at each other's throats ......... because that is what has worked for you for all those years......... and maybe, just maybe, a fund that eliminates the divisions and levels the playing field for all members and access to discretionary spending....

........... might bridge some of that gap and may just win majority approval from the board and might put to bed a discriminatory policy that has gone past it's due date?

Dave, I'm interested in your criticism of my proposed fund? Clearly, you've read it.......it's not the same as a zone promotional fund as you wish it to be labeled. Chime in dude.

[agl892]

Originally Posted by Dave Larkin

Another topic that comes up is why MAAC does not support other events like IMAC and Top Gun. The answer is that Canadian participants in Top Gun are not selected competitively from across Canada. It's a private event. I'm not sure how IMAC works this, but if they compete for a team, then I would say they have a case to apply for MAAC support. However if they just go to the event, there is no case. There is as yet no FAI Jet event, but I was certainly willing to support MAAC funding for a Jet Team for the World Jet event, provided there was a valid team selection process. I can't claim to be fully informed, but I have never heard of a request being submitted to MAAC by IMAC flyers for funding. Of course neither IMAC nor Top Gun are in any way world championship events, FAI or otherwise.

Dave Larkin

Arguably one of the biggest and most prestigious competitions in the World, the TOC, with at the time the single biggest prize purse of any aviation competition, selected their international competitors (by invite only) based on the results of the FAI F3A (Pattern) World Championships. A long time competitor of the TOC Ivan Kristensen, who flew at more TOC's than probably anyone in history was Canadian....and if there had been no affiliation with the FAI in Canada that would have never happened.

The TOC revolutionized the hobby, and things like 3D aircraft flying and huge giant scale gas powered models as we know it today were born out of that event. Mr. Quique Somenzini was one of the first competitors to really do some wonders with 3D flying, and brought it to the masses....he was a long time FAI F3A competitor for Argentina (since age 12, the youngest F3A WC competitor in history), and finally the United States. Today he is retired from FAI F3A and now works as a designer for Horizon along with Mike McConville, and Peter Goldsmith, both FAI F3A World Championship/TOC competitors. So if you fly a model by Horizon, you are flying the experience gained from these people competing in these events.

If you fly a model from 3DHS...chances are you are flying a model influenced or designed by Andrew Jesky...a current US FAI F3A National Champion, and FAI F3A World Championships competitor.

If you have ever used a speed controller with an adjustable brake (or aerobatic brake) which is now offered on Schulze, Jeti, Castle Creations, YGE, OS/Futaba and numerous others copied in China, then you are using an idea developed between Schulze, a German pilot and myself, 8 years ago before there was such a thing...because we needed it for competition.

Thunder Power's initial battery development was very influenced by FAI F3A pilots. Their first 8C packs were being used in 2003 (by Jason Shulman), the following year we were running 15C packs. We pushed them hard to improve longevity and improve their voltage holding, as well improve their performance in cold weather. They were developing packs for pattern that we were using that never made it to market. As their packs got better and manufacturing rights in Asia vanished, specifically on the "Pro Lite" series (before G4 series) virtually every other company was using that manufacturing plant to build their cells to TP's spec. Some of the first Prolite cells ever built were built and delivered to pilots for the F3A World Championships in 2005, as we were pushing TP to produce the highest energy density packs they could. In fact one of the highest energy density cells of that time, initially released by TP in packs sizes for pattern planes became a military spec cell because of that high energy density. All this development set the design foundation for the high C packs of today.

To those that say "I get nothing from FAI competition"....please get your head out of your arse! You may not directly be able see the connection, but there are few products you use today that have not been touched by someone involved in top level competition somewhere, and their experience is being passed along. If you don't agree then you are simply ignorant of history, or are trying to use this forum to push your own agenda.

Also, in my own personal experience of competing at the WC level for 14 years, I have never had an individual come up to me and say "I don't support MAAC providing funding to you". I have on many occasions had people come to me and say "Hey Chad, I followed you and the team at the WC this year...you guys did great", most of the time by people I have never met before, or only see very infrequently.

I always try to give back as much knowledge as possible, I have given many seminars and talks over the years to pass along what I have learnt, even travelled hundreds of km to do so on my own dime. I spend as much time as possible to help out the sport flyer because I do owe them something for what I get from MAAC.


Chad Northeast
7 time Canadian FAI F3A World Championships competitor
RC'er like everyone else, I just happen to be good at one particular thing.

[Applehoney]

Reading through the many postings here I feel it is evident that those from Mr Larkin are uniformly concise, informed, factual and coherent; accordingly I place more reliance upon such than the often heated and somewhat vague rebuttals and poorly constructed retorts from others.

[Richard Lyle Barlow]

Thanks Chad,
Well said.
Richard