[Max]

After reading all the comments (and thank you for clearing up my original question, Mike Sebastien)

I voted "NO"
I agree with others that its a good feature to have, but mandating it makes it tricky to enforce. As it is now, having a manually operated kill switch is enough IMHO.

[chuebner]

It just boils down to that there is enough rules and regulations in our lives already... just fly safe and have fun without all the fear mongering.
Those that do fly gassers, and I am not one, and this goes for glow and lekkies also, appear to be doing it safely already. And if they see someone at the field not flying safe or the plane not setup properly, I am quite sure they will be stopped.
You will always have someone pushing the envelope in any job, sport or hobby! That is life!

Curt

[AJCoholic]

Originally Posted by Mike Sebastien

If you look at earlier posts where guys have said they use these devices but don't want another rule. That to me infers they are opposed to it not because it is a good idea but because it limits there freedom or whatever. As I said earlier no one has really said the recommendation doesn't have some merit.

I am saying that - repeatedly, yet I guess you arent getting my point. I am trying to speak without a real bias, and just give my opinion in a clear manner.

Let me say this again, and then I will be out a' here...

You are suggesting that (and I quote from the 1st post) "all gasoline engines be equipped with a Electronic kill switch. "

But, #1 - you havent even stated what a gasoline engine is. I tried to explain that.

Next, there is no way that every one who runs a gas burning engine needs to have an "electronic" kill switch. I run a Zenoah G20, a 1.2 cubic inch gas engine that immediately shuts off when the carb is fully closed from the throttle trim. The engine is small, and relatively low on power (heck, there are MANY 2 and 4 stroke glow engines that are much larger, and more powerful) and my mounting is secure enough IMO and the linkages will not fail. I can kill the engine, and I dont deem this a potential failure. WHat about the new little (under 1 cubic inch) engines that happen to burn gasoline?

You see, when you want to make a "law" (or rule, whatever you want to call it) you better have specific things that this is intended to cover. As it stands, your recommendation is FAR TOO VAGUE. Blanketing every model engine that burns gasoline isnt going to work.

Go back to my 1st post, and read it. Lots to consider...

In my 25+ years of flying, I have never had a radio failure (battery, receiver or transmitter) I owe that to preventive maintenance, taking care of my gear and not using equipment I feel isnt fit for flight. To me, specifying an electronic kill when a mechanical one (switch & servo) is just as reliable, and can be set to work on failsafe if you do ever loose control is as safe or at least as good.

WHat else to say... its not nearly as clear and clean cut a topic as you probably thought. Accept this, and rethink the entire issue, thats my opinion.

Regards,
Andrew Coholic

[Mike Sebastien]

Originally Posted by AJCoholic

I am saying that - repeatedly, yet I guess you arent getting my point. I am trying to speak without a real bias, and just give my opinion in a clear manner.

Let me say this again, and then I will be out a' here...

You are suggesting that (and I quote from the 1st post) "all gasoline engines be equipped with a Electronic kill switch. "

But, #1 - you havent even stated what a gasoline engine is. I tried to explain that.

Next, there is no way that every one who runs a gas burning engine needs to have an "electronic" kill switch. I run a Zenoah G20, a 1.2 cubic inch gas engine that immediately shuts off when the carb is fully closed from the throttle trim. The engine is small, and relatively low on power (heck, there are MANY 2 and 4 stroke glow engines that are much larger, and more powerful) and my mounting is secure enough IMO and the linkages will not fail. I can kill the engine, and I dont deem this a potential failure. WHat about the new little (under 1 cubic inch) engines that happen to burn gasoline?

You see, when you want to make a "law" (or rule, whatever you want to call it) you better have specific things that this is intended to cover. As it stands, your recommendation is FAR TOO VAGUE. Blanketing every model engine that burns gasoline isnt going to work.

Go back to my 1st post, and read it. Lots to consider...

In my 25+ years of flying, I have never had a radio failure (battery, receiver or transmitter) I owe that to preventive maintenance, taking care of my gear and not using equipment I feel isnt fit for flight. To me, specifying an electronic kill when a mechanical one (switch & servo) is just as reliable, and can be set to work on failsafe if you do ever loose control is as safe or at least as good.

WHat else to say... its not nearly as clear and clean cut a topic as you probably thought. Accept this, and rethink the entire issue, thats my opinion.

Regards,
Andrew Coholic

I really have considered your POV. IMO that exempting certain Gasoline engines would just make it confusing. You know just like the GST or do you guys in Ont have the HST now.

Your right good maintenance is the best way to prevent accidents. Although if you have a battery failure a Radio failsafe won't shut the engine down or bring it to low throttle. If a RX battery fails everything just stays where they are, so a mechanical kill switch on a servo would be useless in this situation.

Electronic kill encompasses all the possibilities of failure and most guys are using them. I'm trying to get the minority that don't use them.

What I'm hoping is that the MAAC directors accept this recommendation and it is sent to the Safety committee where they would consider implementation and exemptions. I'm also hoping if it makes it that far that the experts are consulted such as yourself for your input.

[YoungestPiperCub]

A law or rule that cannot be enforced is as effective as having no law at all.

As Don said a while back. Education is the most important thing. Half the people at our club say what is that thing in your plane. After I explain its function they go out and buy one for there Gasser. Many people don't even now these exist. If MAAC wants to reduce crashes, problems etc. They should educate rather then police. We have a MAAC magazine that goes out to the masses. Write an article explaining the benefits and show how simple the install is. If you want I can write one for publication with pretty pictures and everything.

If out government went out and told us we all now have to do a walk around check on our vehicle and check our tire pressure, and also install a engine shutoff inside the car as a backup in case the key fails. It certainly would make the roads safer. But, Do you think this would go over well???

I know I'm just a kid but it seams to many people in this hobby sit on the sidelines and criticize others on how they fly, what they fly and come up with rules so everyone can just fly circuits like they do.

MAAC's safety code is bigger and more complex the NHRA's Top fuel dragster rule book. You see those guys on TV who do you think is safer.

Hell More people have died from WATCHING hockey games then in this hobby. Its one of the safest hobby's there are go and enjoy it.

Fly whatever you want to fly however you want to fly it... Be Safe and Have Fun!!!

[Mike Sebastien]

Originally Posted by YoungestPiperCUb

As Don said a while back. Education is the most important thing. Half the people at our club say what is that thing in your plane. After I explain its function they go out and buy one for there Gasser. Many people don't even now these exist. If MAAC wants to reduce crashes, problems etc. They should educate rather then police. We have a MAAC magazine that goes out to the masses. Write an article explaining the benefits and show how simple the install is. If you want I can write one for publication with pretty pictures and everything.

You are right Education is the preferable way but sometimes you have to resort to the legislate part of that phrase. Of course you should write that article it would be great!!!!!

[Mike Sebastien]

Originally Posted by YoungestPiperCUb

and also install a engine shutoff inside the car as a backup in case the key fails. It certainly would make the roads safer. But, Do you think this would go over well???

I'm betting Toyota is considering that idea now.

[YoungestPiperCub]

I agree with you Mike that legislation is used to drive things home but like I said in my post above with my car example, it may be safer but not always for the greater good. Unfortunately there are to many factors like glow engines and gassers with magnetos to really make it practical.

For the most part many or the people on here use them thy just don't want to be forced to. Some feel it better to not. I think we should let everyone do as they please but help explain why they are a good idea. In the end its there call. (its gonna be there call anyway even if you make it mandatory.) Plus when US guys come up here then will they have to use one? There are to many variables.

I personally find helis WAY more dangerous then any gas plane no matter what the size.Not only can you no shut them off but they beat themselves and everything around them to death... But man they are fun!!!

If you really want an article tell me how long to make it and where to send it. My only condition is that if i put the time it to make one it will get published. I dont wanna get my hard work thrown into a pile to never see light again

[Guest]

Originally Posted by YoungestPiperCUb

If out government went out and told us we all now have to do a walk around check on our vehicle and check our tire pressure, and also install a engine shutoff inside the car as a backup in case the key fails. It certainly would make the roads safer. But, Do you think this would go over well???

I worked for a large oilfield service company that did just that due to the continued lack of common sense and intelligence of a very few people operating equipment (out of the 14,000 globally that were employed). Not only were walkarounds required of every fleet vehicle before driving, every employee had to take a journey management course, and every vehicle was equipped with speed nanny's, GPS tracking (which monitored acceleration, deceleration etc.), seat belt usage monitoring etc. You get the idea.

At the end of the day, common sense is not common unfortunately, and rules will be put in place to protect organizations.

Its only a matter of time before engine kills are mandatory on all aircraft. Someone will lose a finger, or hand or worse, and insurance claim will be made, and voila! Except it won't come from MAAC, but probably the insurer

[volksman]

10 pages but the simple point is if ya cant stop the engine by any means its dangerous. contest flying where certain conditions can be mandated great fill your boots. saying this product or that product will work is out in left field. 2.4 is far from perfect. i lost a brand new aircraft on 2.4 that didnt go into failsafe. the wonderful world of spectrum. this had a 5.5 hp gasoline engine. luckily we fly in a wide open area. their was no means of stoping anything. all my planes have a micro switch in the positive lead for the igniton. gear was all spankin new. nothing is perfect