[Frank Klenk]

Originally Posted by scaleguy

But you CAN'T use it as an aid for Judging if you are Judging.

No aides while siting in the Judges Chair. This includes pens and fingers!

Seriously Jim! No pens no fingers?

[-Rick-]

Originally Posted by scaleguy

But you CAN'T use it as an aid for Judging if you are Judging.

No aides while siting in the Judges Chair. This includes pens and fingers!

Not that I plan on doing this, but can a competitor have his caller hold one up in a contest?

Also another one I wonder about but don't plan on doing. If your plane has flaps could you set it up (on a switch) so they come down when you go to low throttle to slow the plane down in down lines? I don't even know if it would work? And would it be legal?

Just thinking out loud...

[scaleguy]

Originally Posted by scaleguy

But you CAN'T use it as an aid for Judging if you are Judging.

No aides while siting in the Judges Chair. This includes pens and fingers!

Originally Posted by Frank Klenk

Seriously Jim! No pens no fingers?

As in holding them up to mark the beginning of a maneuver like a loop to verify if aircraft exits at same altitude.

You can still use your fingers to hold the pen to write the score down. Although I would prefer to see scribes at every contest in every round so the Judge doesn't have to look down to write score and potentially miss the something.

[scaleguy]

Originally Posted by -Rick-

Not that I plan on doing this, but can a competitor have his caller hold one up in a contest?

Also another one I wonder about but don't plan on doing. If your plane has flaps could you set it up (on a switch) so they come down when you go to low throttle to slow the plane down in down lines? I don't even know if it would work? And would it be legal?

Just thinking out loud...

Rick,

No your caller cannot hold up the triangle so you know exactly what 45 deg looks like.

You have flaps on an IMAC plane? Or are your ailerons just split in half?

Haven't seen anyone do it.

How fast is your plane in a down-line?

What air-frame are you flying?

You fly Basic right?

[Billpilotca]

Originally Posted by scaleguy

As in holding them up to mark the beginning of a maneuver like a loop to verify if aircraft exits at same altitude.

Now Jim - you cannot deduct retroactively so that is why you cannot hold your finger (or pen) at the point where the plane entered the loop and compare where it exits. Likewise a plane could have 5 flat spots or radius changes in the loop but still exit at the same altitude, that's not a "10" either......

[scaleguy]

Originally Posted by Billpilotca

Now Jim - you cannot deduct retroactively so that is why you cannot hold your finger (or pen) at the point where the plane entered the loop and compare where it exits. Likewise a plane could have 5 flat spots or radius changes in the loop but still exit at the same altitude, that's not a "10" either......

Bill I know that but one criteria for a loop is entering and exiting at the same altitude which you can take 1 point off for.

[Billpilotca]

Originally Posted by scaleguy

Bill I know that but one criteria for a loop is entering and exiting at the same altitude which you can take 1 point off for.

Now you are going to make me go back and look at the rules because I am not sure that the deduction is specified

[-Rick-]

Originally Posted by scaleguy

Rick,

No your caller cannot hold up the triangle so you know exactly what 45 deg looks like.

You have flaps on an IMAC plane? Or are your ailerons just split in half?

Haven't seen anyone do it.

How fast is your plane in a down-line?

What air-frame are you flying?

You fly Basic right?

Yes Jim, I fly basic. Or try to! The plane is an old Dietrich 42% slick 540. I spit the ailerons, 2/3 ailerons, 1/3 flap. I did it to keep clean air over the elevator more so than to give it flaps. I have done a complete rebuild on it aimed at IMAC. The plane has a very thick cord so I think it will slow down fine. It has not been flown by me yet.

[scaleguy]

Originally Posted by scaleguy

Bill I know that but one criteria for a loop is entering and exiting at the same altitude which you can take 1 point off for.

Originally Posted by Billpilotca

Now you are going to make me go back and look at the rules because I am not sure that the deduction is specified

Bill,

My bad. May have been a criteria at one point but not currently.

The rule book does say "Full loops must appear perfectly round to the judges".

Here is an explanation right from the rule book:

8.7.4a: Round Loops (7.4.1 – 7.4.2) All whole round loops must appear perfectly round to the judge (Fig 33). If required, they must be wind corrected to have a constant radius. This wind correction is not only with
regards to the roundness of the loop but also for the effect of any crosswind on the figure. Therefore, a standard deduction of 0.5 points per five (5) degrees should be applied if the finish point is displaced in a direction
perpendicular to the plane of the loop (Fig. 34). In a heavy crosswind situation, a loop might be flown with visible crabbing and no deduction should be applied in this case.

To better quantify deductions for loops, the judges should watch for
these irregularities: perpendicular displacement, change of radius,
aircraft roll and flat spots (aircraft without a flight path radius) within the loop.

Deductions are as follows:
a. As stated in first paragraph, 0.5 points per five degrees for perpendicular displacement.
b. A variation in the radius will be a one point deduction per occurrence.
c. Aircraft displaying any roll other
than during a roll element on the loop, 0.5
point per five degrees of roll.
d. Flight path without any radius
(straight line or “flat spot”), one point per
occurrence.


So based on the above if I was judging a loop and I didn't see any of the above deductions I take into account the line above that says "All whole round loops must appear perfectly round to the judge (Fig 33)." so if the aircraft does not begin the maneuver and end the maneuver at the same altitude then there must have been at least one change in radius and I would deduct 1 point

[Billpilotca]

Jim - I understand your rationale, it is just an example from the rule book where the deduction is not specified. As you say if the entry and exit altititude are not the same we know there must have been a radius change (or 5 radius changes!). That being said you are supposed to deduct when you see a radius change or a flat spot and not retroactively. But we all know what we do .......