[Guest]

A bigger problem that no one has mentioned, that even experienced pilots will have.....is the fact that to compensate for the increased ground speed and drift, its not uncommon to turn a lot more agressively when going downwind than you normally would to minimize drift. I have seen this cause more incidents especially during landing approaches than just a lack of throttle or airspeed management.

The biggest thing I teach guys about flying precision aerobatics in the wind is.....DO NOT get off the power while flying downwind. If anything you want more power when entering manuvers downwind, especially if they are demanding of vertical performance.

The most entertaining thing you will see....is someone trying to fly a clean point roll, in stiff downwind, while throttled back to maintain ground speed Aint gonna happen

[Noin]

Originally Posted by can773

A bigger problem that no one has mentioned, that even experienced pilots will have.....is the fact that to compensate for the increased ground speed and drift, its not uncommon to turn a lot more agressively when going downwind than you normally would to minimize drift. I have seen this cause more incidents especially during landing approaches than just a lack of throttle or airspeed management.

A bit more on this please, as I am not sure I know what you mean.

[Guest]

Originally Posted by Noin

A bit more on this please, as I am not sure I know what you mean.

flying downwind to land...then intiate bank to make the turn to final (lets say you want a short turn)....typically you will run higher bank angles and turn rates if the wind is strong vs. a no wind day to minimize the drift.....doing this is very risky unless you know what you are doing...and know your plane, and I have seen many guys lose planes because of it.

[j-coles]

Originally Posted by can773

flying downwind to land...then intiate bank to make the turn to final (lets say you want a short turn)....typically you will run higher bank angles and turn rates if the wind is strong vs. a no wind day to minimize the drift.....doing this is very risky unless you know what you are doing...and know your plane, and I have seen many guys lose planes because of it.

these examples pertain to ground based curcuits similiar to having a oval boat race on a fast moving river ,,

: :

[Guest]

Originally Posted by j-coles

these examples pertain to ground based curcuits similiar to having a oval boat race on a fast moving river ,,

: :

Your only reference when flying is the ground....most will fly to accomodate the corrent ground track.....to fly any other way demonstrates a lack of sufficient control of the model IMO.

[JimMcIntyre]

Originally Posted by can773

The biggest thing I teach guys about flying precision aerobatics in the wind is.....DO NOT get off the power while flying downwind. If anything you want more power when entering manuvers downwind, especially if they are demanding of vertical performance.

Cautious of hijacking here, I assume the original post has been answered?

Interesting ... please elaborate why more power is required on downwind, is this to support a ground-based reference for the vertical?

[ronm]

When pulling vertical down-wind to a wind-corrected vertical line, you have to pull until you pass 90 deg vertical with reference to the ground.
When doing the same up-wind, you pull until less than 90 deg. This would take less power to complete.
After the vertical line is established, the power requirement should be the same either way.

[Guest]

Originally Posted by JimMcIntyre

Cautious of hijacking here, I assume the original post has been answered?

Interesting ... please elaborate why more power is required on downwind, is this to support a ground-based reference for the vertical?

More power when entering....you can coast as much as you want but you better be on the gas when you start something that requires the airplane to fly Remember that in model aerobatics its the track of the model that counts and everything must be wind corrected (except spins)...so yes its all referenced to fixed points on the ground...somewhat different from full scale aerobatics.

Problem is...if you enter say a loop downwind (yes yes, you are supposed to do them upwind...but thats too simple)....we have downwind loops in the upper classes of pattern....

Anyways....enter a loop downwind at low power to control speed....you pull up, your plane immediately starts drifting rapidly as the wind catches the top of the wing. You pull harder and advance the throttle to compensate, but its too late...your model is already rapidly drifting downwind and you dont have enough horsepower and rotation to correct it.

If you entered with more power on, you can much more rapidly pitch the nose to compensate for the wind...as well as the extra power really helps the model change direction.

It really applies to anything you do downwind...slow rolls, point rolls, 45 climbs etc etc. I am usually near full throttle on horizontal rolls whether I am upwind, downwind, no wind. Sure my groundspeed goes through the roof...but the roll is flawless....then I use that energy coming into the next manuver to avoid a downwind drift as I pull up....so in that case I would actually reduce the power level sigificantly.

Anyways...this is stuff that takes years of practise to perfect and understand fully....its rather difficult to explain in words.

Go try it one day...you will see what I mean.

*note*- I am not talking 10kph winds here....thats not enough to worry about...this would be more along the lines of flying in a 25-35 kph wind.

[Guest]

Originally Posted by ronm

After the vertical line is established, the power requirement should be the same either way.

Yes, but as you say you will burn more momentum in a downwind pull...so the verticals will seem to require more power from that point.

Ultimately it depends on the manuver/wind direction...some are control throw hogs for wind correction (say point rolls on uplines...or snaps)...and 45 degree crosswinds can really eat up power because of the amount of control deflection to maintain track

Flying in wind seperates the men from the boys

[JimMcIntyre]

Originally Posted by can773

... as the wind catches the top of the wing.

It's statements like these I have difficulty with.