[Guest]

Hi Andrew,
I hope you weren't offended by my asking Jim about the Phoenix, it's just that I knew you got yours RTF. I looked at the Phoenix and the Angel when they first came out, but I didn't hear anything good about the build and quality of finish. In fact, until I read your flight reports, I hadn't really heard much good about the flying characteristics of the airplane either. I had heard a few horror stories, but admittedly they were people who used it as their first jet and maybe if you're not used to a heavier faster airplane it isn't as docile as it could be.
I was looking at it in comparison to a Bobcat mostly. It is $1000 less than a Composite Bobcat which is appealing.

BTW, I'm not in the market for one right now, just doing a little research

[AJCoholic]

No reason to be offended...

Just trying to help. I havent seen a lot of jets, but have seen enough I guess from Yellow, BVM, etc to kind of make an informed opinion.

I did many searches on RCU but have so little about this plane... I basically trusted Peter about its flying ability and he didnt lie! Like I have stated, I consider myself an "average" to maybe a little above average in piloting ability. This plane rocks - no other way to put it. ABsolutely flies like a dream. Hands off stability in fast flight or slow. No tendency to drop either wing when you slow it right down (just starts a faster descent) and you can pull a lot of elevator without it getting squirrelly.

The fibreglass looks pretty good to me, smooth and stiff enough where it needs to be. I had quite a dorked landing when I sheared the gear pin, so much so the nose dug in at a 45 degree angle and took quite a divot out of the runway. Not a scratch on her, anywhere. I was pretty impressed (with the durability, not my shitty landing). But again, its easy to land now I know you have to just keep some power on to maintain the approach.

AJC

[JimBrown]

Jeremy,

It's a little difficult for me to be unbiased, as I'm sure you'll agree given what's in my signature.

But, I like the performance of the Phoenix so much that I am about to purchase my third one. (I just dumb thumbed my second one at the Spiderman rally. I haven't told Peter yet...) I may be sponsored, but I do purchase my own jets.

That being said, Andrew is pretty much correct in his assessment. The old dictum "you get what you pay for" is applicable here. To me, finish is secondary to performance. I have had minor issues with fit, but they were not anything that couldn't be taken care of fairly easily. And if you're good at colour matching, I don't see any problem with touching up the seams and maybe adding a nice clear coat. (I hear you're pretty good with a paint gun. ) I've got a friend who is in your league who will be touching up my next Phoenix. But, out of the box, it still looks good, and as it wizzes by at almost 200 mph, 12" off the deck, you can't really see the imperfections.

Something that did not help when the Phoenix was first released was that the published CG was way too far forward. No doubt this contributed to any negative flight reports at the time.

Hope that helps,
...jim

[Steve N.]

Originally Posted by AJCoholic

The retracts and struts (all trailing link style as shown in the pics) AJC

Hi Andrew,

Not to get off topic re the Phoenix, but I've got a Q about using the trailing links on all three. I'm thinking about using three trailing links on an Elan, but I'm wondering how hard it is to hold the nose up, bleeding ground speed on the mains, when landing on a grass field, or even on asphalt. I wonder if the mains folding back/up on landing would make it difficult to hold the nose wheel off. Any thoughts??? (Andrew or anyone else with three trailing links)

Thanks,
Steve

[kev-o]

Well Steve
Dean has all trailing links on his Elan and no issues, I have trailing front and normal behotec mains and no issues at all Peter was right they are fine on grass or pavement, back to the thread
Paul i think this would be a great second airframe and will fulfill your need for speed and give booker a run for his money at princeton next year

Kev-o

[AJCoholic]

Originally Posted by Steve N.

Hi Andrew,

Not to get off topic re the Phoenix, but I've got a Q about using the trailing links on all three. I'm thinking about using three trailing links on an Elan, but I'm wondering how hard it is to hold the nose up, bleeding ground speed on the mains, when landing on a grass field, or even on asphalt. I wonder if the mains folding back/up on landing would make it difficult to hold the nose wheel off. Any thoughts??? (Andrew or anyone else with three trailing links)

Thanks,
Steve

Steve, Why would the type of strut affect the situation? I am understanding you would be landing on the mains and hold the nose up.. not sure exactly what you mean.

I do know the nose on this plane doesnt bounce up and down at all - on take off run or upon landing. The gear must have something to do with it, I am sure!

AJC

[Guest]

I think what he means is the trailing link gear quite typically compress much easier than a standard strut, so does the squat of the trailing link struts make it more difficult to hold the nose off the ground or anything.
How are you guys finding the springs on the trailing link gear holding up? I know there were quite a few of I believe the digitech ones that the springs were not strong enough and after very few landings they were very soft.

I personally just don't like the look of the trailing link struts, is there really that much of a handling difference in them compared to a regular strut?

[Pauld]

Based on my limited experience with the Reaction I think straight gear on the mains and a trailing link on the nose will work best.

In my case I was bending the steering pin on the nose gear just on take-offs off of the grass. The front strut was a sprung robo-strut but the spring was too stiff and the gear actually leaned back a bit preventing the strut from doing it's job. I have since shimmed the retract so the gear leans slightly forward and changed the spring to a softer one and everything seems o.k. I believe that a trailing type would absorb better as the pivoting action allows the wheel to move slightly rearward as it flexes upwards.

As for the mains, I agree that I don't think trailing type helps as much there, however, the same logic applies as far as the slight forward angle or the straight struts can't do thier thing.

Paulomite

[JimBrown]

If one ponders and visualizes it a bit, one may realize that a trailing link strut and wheel will transmit far less side (front to back) loads to the retract mount. This is a good thing. Particularly when flying off grass.

Also, not all trailing link struts are equal. Some of the aftermarket trailing link struts that are designed to replace straight struts do have problems with the external springs wearing and stretching after a while.

My experience is with the Behotec trailing link struts which are designed to always trail, even when there is no weight on them. They use an internal spring that is compressed (not stretched) and dampener similar to straight Robostruts. It's the geometry that makes them trail. They also do not compress very much (again, similar to a Robostrut) but still provide that shock absorption

In my opinion, any strut that functions as a trailing link strut is better than a straight strut. Particularly when you hit that nasty bump or crack.

Regards,
...jim

[Steve N.]

Thanks Jim. What you say makes sense, and I'm glad you pointed out the difference with how the Behotec trailing link. The compression spring could well be an advantage. I know you haven't used them, but you're a well travelled guy. I'm just wondering if you've heard any feedback on the Pro-Link gear that Todd at Dreamworks sellls for the Elan. His are trailing links on all three and I like the half inch strut into the trunion much like Robarts. The springs however work on extension rather than compression. Any word on durability etc?

Thanks,
Steve