[jsparky]

Originally Posted by DJB

It will only work with the DJI Phantom type store bought multirotors that have a GPS. It's a good start but it won't stop the others that put together home built rigs with open source flight controllers.

You can hard code the firmware into all flight controllers so that it can't be changed..

[DJB]

Originally Posted by jsparky

You can hard code the firmware into all flight controllers so that it can't be changed..

There are many open source controllers. Schematics and code are already out there so it's too late for that. It means just don't do an update or revert to the old source. Good luck getting China getting on board with the program. Also if there is no GPS on board geo fence is useless. This idea will only work with the prebuilt store bought toys, but it's a good start.

[bcsaltchucker]

Originally Posted by Trumpetman

My definition of "traditional RC models" (as opposed to "drones") are aircraft of any type, flown with the model in the unaided view of a pilot (ie. Line of sight). Models of this type have been flown for decades in a good relationship with the public, general aviation and the government. The essential limitation is "line of sight". This keeps the model away from full scale aviation and it keeps the pilot close enough to the model to identify as the pilot.

Once the technology allowed for beyond line of sight flight, our models crossed a line that, like it or not, the general public feels makes them potentially dangerous and invasions of privacy.

I have no issues with any government regulating, registering and even restricting beyond line of sight FPV activities ("drones" by my definition). I only hope that with the help of the AMA and MAAC, that the authorities can draw the distinction that will allow my hobby to exist....

wrong on two counts.

1/ however many of the drones used for making videos are indeed flown line of sight, unaided by FPV.

2/ And many of us avid FPVers fly more like traditional RC pilots - at rural fields at low altitude, close by, or even at RC clubs and organized events. Flying for the sake of flying, not to take videos. This kind of FPV flying is more like 'traditional RC flying' than the guy who takes a Parkzone Cub to a schoolyard near people's homes. AND, the culture of FPV has evolved tremendously in the past 2 years to more of a traditional RC format flying small racing drones in safe areas (ie not over the city or more than 500m away, similar distance you see folks flying non FPV at a club) - partly to differentiate us from the non-hobbyists buying drones at Best Buy who go fly in the approach path (often line of sight flying not FPV)

So this is the fallacy of throwing up such a black and white rule 'all fpv are drones and do not deserve to enjoy the same freedoms as LOS RC', you let the rogue pilots slip by with your loophole 'non FPV' and then you ensnare the responsible pilots with your anti-FPV stance. Essentially you are throwing your friends under the bus.

I dislike that idea intensely. You can only expect hostilities to intensify and the lot of RC flying in general to deteriorate by such throwing under the bus, creating an unfair two-tier hierarchy in RC flying.

Also 'traditional model airplane flying' pre-dates RC flying too. Once was a time they all flew free flight, or control line, and had overwhelming hostility to early RC flying.

better to work together on this together, and target the rogue flying with a laser beam, instead of a scattershot, indiscriminate blunderbus.

[davidmc36]

Originally Posted by bcsaltchucker

.....This kind of FPV flying is more like 'traditional RC flying' than the guy who takes a Parkzone Cub to a schoolyard near people's homes. .....

Quite on point.

People (Media) don't see the racing community, they only see what's on the "NEWS"

Like "traditional" RC Flying when I was younger/starting out, nobody saw RC flying much, it was done away from populated areas and few spectators. "I heard there was an RC Airplane field down that road somewhere but I don't know for sure."

[mjohnson]

This is what they need to control:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WIQ18TbeofU

That is not an LOS FPV setup especially when they are using 1.2gHz for the video link. You can also see the tx signal converter mounted to his tx. No where is mentioned that you need a HAM license to operate that equipment both in Canada and the US even if the machine is kept within LOS......

I can just see the Law Enforcement Officer tapping him on the shoulder and asking him for his registration papers.

Posted by, and condoned, by RCG no less.

[bcsaltchucker]

well antenna tracker not necessarily only used for long range flying. But the setup shown in the video .. is admittedly for illegal long range flying, not to be condoned. And should be targeted by regulators, I agree. Targetted with a laser beam.

While there still remains a small subset of FPVers doing illegal long range flying, this has largely been shunted to the margins - if you follow the FPV community. Has been largely displaced by miniquad racer/freestyle flying. And this kind of flying is done like traditional RC flying.

Have to understand the scale of these communities too though. It is very tiny. While the hobby FPV community has always been small - a few thousand pilots worldwide, the consumer drones are sold by the millions per year. FPV has existed for 25 years, and never raised a peep in the media until the consumer quadcopters emerged, along with commercial size quadcopters in the last 4 years. When I first started doing FPV 4 years ago (with a 100g dehavilland mosquito model) there was ZERO presence of FPV in the media. FPV carried on in blissful quiet, like 'traditional RC flying.' I was the only one doing it in Victoria, maybe only a hundred people in all of Canada doing it at the time. Also most in this community came from 'traditional RC flying' like I did. Can thing of very few of the veteran FPVer who were not also AMA or MAAC pilots going back a decade or four.

But the FPV videos did make it to Youtube, and the long range ones created some worry (though most who tried FPV never made it past 1km) amongst people in RC flying - rightfully so. This was more a product of the Youtube era, where nothing is private any mroe. While RC soaring had been going to 2000ft and cross country for 20km for decades, it was out of sight and mind. Youtube puts things in everyone's face, gets a lot of attention, and rubs some the wrong way. Also forces the FAA/TC hand to pay attention and do something about it.

Now we have millions of people buying consumer quads. We also have plug and play FPV systems, eliminating the natural barriers to entry into the sport that existed 4 years ago. People not familiar with established safety practices. Then they hit Youtube is a big way. This is a problem, I agree.

But the FPV community today, has evolved. It is still small, It may only be 1% of the folks who own a 'drone.' But the FPV hobby community is also overhwelmingly focused on mini racing quadcopters. We've chosen this because it is purely about flying. And it is more socially acceptable because it is so similar to 'traditional RC flying.' By nature the flights are very short, the range is short, the thrills are at very low altitude, the locations are not controversial (and much more plentiful than for planes), the aircraft are small (because the flying experience in the videolink is the same regardless of size of aircraft. one of my mini racers is a mere 150g). This is a good thing, should be rewarded for being responsible, and for creating a new genre of RC pleasure - racing and aerobatics. And be rewarded for opening up more venues for folks to partake in RC flying (recently lost our MAAC field for no reason at all, it is a worsening plight for traditional RC)

So I say TC and FAA should steam ahead and press charges against the rogue pilots. No matter what they are flying. If they are flying long range, or near aircraft, or near downtown or whatever, target the bad flying behaviour and bad pilots. Not the equipment. Or at least find a way to control the consumer quad operators without clobbering the miniquad pilots, imho

[mjohnson]

Originally Posted by DJB

There are many open source controllers. Schematics and code are already out there so it's too late for that. It means just don't do an update or revert to the old source. Good luck getting China getting on board with the program. Also if there is no GPS on board geo fence is useless. This idea will only work with the prebuilt store bought toys, but it's a good start.

I agree with this 100%. OTOH someone that puts together a DIY machine would hopefully have the knowledge to operate it in a safe environment....but there are always exceptions.

It's the kids who are going to be getting these things for Xmas and have no idea about the safe and legal operation of said machine that need to be targeted. I know I am sounding like a broken record on this but the key is to educate, not registrate. Like I have said, the manufacturers of these things need to be responsible for education and an online course on a secure website that the new owner has to take and pass successfully to get an "unlock" key would be the easiest and most effective way imo. A plus to this is that when the "unlock" key is given, it will automatically register the product. This however does not help when the machine is sold to a second party. Don't have an answer to that but somebody far brighter than I could figure that one out.

Granted there will always be the rogues out there that will flaunt the rules and laws no matter what but the average kid just wanting to have a good time is not out to purposely endanger and put full scale aviation at risk, he just does not know any better.

[Trumpetman]

Scott, you need to slow down and carefully read my last post. I personally think quad, hex and octocopters, including FPV versions, are cool. I have no problem coexisting with them at any field. As stated above, I only have issues with the beyond line of sight FPV crowd. The authorities however are, not surprisingly, taking a "blunderbuss" approach with "drones".

[jsparky]

Just watched the 6 pm news and this drone thing was on there again.. Now in sitting back and thinking things over a bit.. But the projected sales of drones is expected to burst a bubble.. And the USA wanting to try and get a registration on drones in the next two months.. just before Xmas ??? when this bubble is set to burst..

Lets face it... The USA has pretty much pissed in everyone's corn flakes at some time or another..

And most if not all of those other ethnic origin people live here in north america.

And you can get flight managment software to have the drone fly a preprogrammed path..

The best place to hide is in a crowd !!!!

The Bubble

How much explosives could you pack into a good sized drone..

The USA is not trying to regulate the drones...

They are expecting another 9-11

[bensidus197217]

How much bang could a Kilo of explosives have? My Hex can pack a Kilo with stock equipment.