[camel]

Further to Ian Gunn's question on painting a T28 with car paint. My Brother-in-law owns the autobody shop and offered to supply the paint and paint the model. They use Sikkins Paint, base coat (color) and clear coat over the color. decals and pin striping tape. Question?? I do not know if the Clear coat is fuel proof, Can anyone help me out there? Paul Benson

[barrett]

well its a polyurethane, if that helps, and its hardened (unlike other indoor poly's) with isocyanate. IMO, i wouldnt worry about it and fuel.

[Rammer64]

If you do use auto paint hardeners (ISOCYANATES) - BE SURE TO USE A RESPIRATOR STYLE MASK and IN A WELL VENTILATED AREA.
ISOCYANATE is a HIGH CANCER CAUSING CARCINOGEN.
Body shops are noteably high for cancer risk/related illnesses due to the hardeners.

BASE CLEAR COAT is not really and easy process for a beginner when it comes to painting.
Just my thoughts.

[craigk]

I think an Isocyanate based hardener requires a supplied air respirator, not a simple half mask dust /organic vapour respirator

make sure the cartridges on the respirator CLEARLY indicate use for isocyanate based chemicals

[Brian Facey]

THERE ARE NO CARTRIDGES FOR USE WITH ISOCYANATES. YOU CAN'T FILTER OUT ISOCYANATES
YOU MUST HAVE A FRESH AIR SUPPLY FROM A REGULATED COMPRESSOR ENTERING YOUR FACE MASK. YOU DON'T FOOL AROUND WITH SPRAYED ISOCYANATES.

BRIAN FACEY

[AJCoholic]

according to my sources, organic vapour cartridges do capture IC vapours, however, the cartridges get "saturated" (for lack of a better word) and you should use a new set for each paint job.

Some materials, like the catalysed lacquer I use in my shop (with a synthetic acid catalyst) are fine for many weeks of continous spraying.

Best advice is to speak to a knowledgeable sales person at a dedicated paint supplier, and/or a safety supply company that sels the respirators. There has been a lot of talk about this on RCU in the jets forum (where many guys use automotive paints on their jet planes) and it is hard to get a straight answer..

[Brian Facey]

If there are organic vapour cartridges available at this time then that is something new to me as I work with MDI (Methylene diisocyanate) and have worked with the real King of toxic Iso TDI (Toluene diisocyanate) in liquid form, not sprayed. We monitor the ISO levels in our enironmentally secure area carefully. Anything above .05 parts per million ( 5/100 of one part in one million) can cause sensitization in very short order. I have never heard of an organic cartridge that will filter out any form of isocyanates. If you check the warnings when purchasing any organic filters, it states "not to be used for isocyanates".
If you know of one Andrew, I would like you to PM me as this would be very interesting information indeed.
Thanks, Brian Facey

[Brian Facey]

Just looked up some info on US Department of Labour site, Occupational Health and Safety. It appears that Dow chemical has evaluated some organic cartridges and found cartridges that have a D/M (dust mist) or a high efficiency (HEPA) filter effectively removes 99% + of aerosol and vapour Iso.

99% of Isocyanates X 1 000 000 parts = 990 000 parts. That leaves about 10 000 parts of MDI being inhaled when the sensitization level is just over 5/100 of one part in one million based on Canadian studies.
Would you use it?

In fact, short term exposure is not all that bad for everyone. There is such a thing as TWA or time weighted averages (values) where the .05 limit can be exceeded but only by a little and for short periods and certainly not on a weekly or especially a daily basis. A lot would depend upon the sensitization level of a particular individual.

The real problems are that it can attack the respiratory system and can cause very serious dermal effects. I have seen some people where they developed lesions on their hands. I saw a case in our company 22 years ago when a person was thought to have a severe case of pneumonia and ended up in an oxygen tent. However, it didn't test out that way. It was finally solved by an allergenist. It was our new in plant chemical TDI that was the culprit. And keep in mind, we were not spraying it, we were only pouring it as a liquid which means it had super low vapour pressure unlike sprays.
Cancer is a potential risk as it is based upon cancer being observed in test rats.

THIS IS NASTY STUFF FOLKS. IF YOU SPRAY IN YOUR GARAGE WITHOUT PROPER PROTECTION AND VENTILATION, YOU MAY HAVE SOME SERIOUS RESPIRATORY PROBLEMS ABOUT 12 HOURS LATER.

Brian Facey

[AJCoholic]

Brian,
I am not 100% sure - but was told that fairly recently. I will look into it...

[craigk]

look folks, as Brian has said it more than once - you can't fool with this stuff
my friend just died at age 48 from liver failure, partly due to inhaling glue vapours, as well as other issues. The fellow worked with industrial belting glues, and I more than once chastised his safety practices anyway

this material is very very bad stuff if not handled absolutely properly -there are no half measures that you can get away with

READ THIS http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/DBLaws/R...h/900842_e.htm

Please be careful[/b]