[TLyttle]

I'm with Britbrat on this one: that is a circus act, and has no place in the hobby. You can almost hear the guy: "Lookit me!!! Lookit me!!!" It's like a dog licking... well, you get the idea; because it can. That is a juvenile reason for that stunt. Justify it if you will, but if I saw that happening on a MAAC-sanctioned site, I would report it, and the guy's MAAC#. Dumb.

[AJCoholic]

Come on guys, report what?? What are the safety code rules being broken??

Just because you dont like something, please dont group it into the same catagory as "unsafe" or "dangerous" flying.

Many aspects of this hobby are potentially dangerous, and you will never make it 100% safe unless you outright stop flying plain and simple.

I didnt want to get into a rant, but saying what you did isnt fair. I often hover my fun fly plane and do stunts. Ask the guys who I fly with at many clubs in our zone if I am a danger to anyone or not....

And I dont break rules - period.

Remember, everyone is entitled to their opinons, and you stated yours so I stated mine.

There is nothing juvenile about pushing your aerobatic limits and trying to improve your flying skills. As long as this is done at the right place and time, and doesnt interfere with anyone else's fun, or safe flying. Learning to have the skills to get out of a tight situation with your plane certainly comes in handy.

[britbrat]

Andrew, that kind of stuff shouldn't need a specific rule declaring that it is dangerous -- it very clearly is dangerous -- and stunningly foolish.

You are a well respected individual in this hobby & there a plenty of foolish, but tallented pilots, who will be encouraged by your remarks to do these stupid stunts.

As a MAAC Chairperson you are aware (or should be) of the precarious state of our insurance coverage. If our insurers ever saw a picture like that, we would be out on the street as far as insurance goes. We can hardly say that we always fly safely with stunts like that being extolled as a good thing to do.

[Chris Cann]

Thats Quique Somenzini and it's an amazing pic, if you think thats dangerous is it not dangerous when people start their planes with their fingers? There's nothing wrong with what hes doing, he's not making anyone stand there next to his plane he's doing it so if that individual is confident enough to stand there and fly it like that then let them...

[Guest]

Originally Posted by britbrat

Andrew, that kind of stuff shouldn't need a specific rule declaring that it is dangerous -- it very clearly is dangerous -- and stunningly foolish.

You are a well respected individual in this hobby & there a plenty of foolish, but tallented pilots, who will be encouraged by your remarks to do these stupid stunts.

As a MAAC Chairperson you are aware (or should be) of the precarious state of our insurance coverage. If our insurers ever saw a picture like that, we would be out on the street as far as insurance goes. We can hardly say that we always fly safely with stunts like that being extolled as a good thing to do.

Britbrat

Reflect on all the accidents in the past two years, how many of those were caused from people hovering low to the ground? None. If I recall correctly two people were seriously injured (one killed actually) from trainers (including the recent accident in Canada) one from a student with a heli, one from a sport plane in the UK being flown in a park.

Like it or not arguably the most dangerous part of this hobby are the students/inexperienced pilots, I have witnessed more incidents/saftey violations involving students than any other group of fliers combined. Should we ban or outlaw students? Of course not.

Beleiving that someone with 30+ years of RC flying at the World Championship level, and having the ultimate in equipment and support is more dangerous than Joe learning on his LT-40 is very short-sighted.

[britbrat]

Chad/Andrew/Chris & others, I don't have a problem with hovering -- either high or low. I do have a problem with hovering in close proximity to people, & touching a hovering ac is completely off the scale. Pilot skill is only one factor (albeit very important). Aside from pilot skill, we are dealing with systems that are prone to mechanical failure & radio interference, in addition to wind gusts, a bit of grit in the pilot's eye, stroke/heart atack, bird strike etc, etc. Any one of those "random" things could put that prop into someone's face. A model as large as the one in the picture could decapitate someone. If that happened, it would be more than an unfortunate accident -- it is irresponsibility verging on criminality, particularly if the dummy holding the tail was reassured by the pilot that it was "safe".

We are dancing with the devil when we tempt fate like that & I have enormous anger at the thought that some jerk might get my flying stopped by showing off in a clearly dangerous manner.

This isn't about curtailing fun -- that photo isn't funny, or fun, it is rank stupidity, & encouraging that behaviour is the last thing that we should be doing.

I don't have anything more to say about this.

[AJCoholic]

Originally Posted by britbrat

Andrew, that kind of stuff shouldn't need a specific rule declaring that it is dangerous -- it very clearly is dangerous -- and stunningly foolish.

You are a well respected individual in this hobby & there a plenty of foolish, but tallented pilots, who will be encouraged by your remarks to do these stupid stunts.

As a MAAC Chairperson you are aware (or should be) of the precarious state of our insurance coverage. If our insurers ever saw a picture like that, we would be out on the street as far as insurance goes. We can hardly say that we always fly safely with stunts like that being extolled as a good thing to do.

Britbrat (I would rather address you by your real name),
If I am well respected in this hobby, I would hope it is only due to my respect for the hobby itself, and for promoting the enjoyment of it for ALL disciplines as long as they are behaving in a safe and courteous manner, and obeying both the rules of MAAC, the flying site they are using and first and foremost the rules of common sense. Yes, I have recently been elected to a maac chairperson's position, and I will indeed encounter the same arguements with respect to jets. "they are too fast, too dangerous, too..." you get my point I am certain. Yes, there is the potential for accidents in each and every discipline of the hobby - period. But, if you start trying to ban one aspect where is it to stop? You dislike hovering or 3D type flying, and are entitled to it. Yet, you cannot, for fear that something MAY happen (and someone get injured) justify to me that it should be banned because there is a potential for harm...

If that is the case, then powered modeling should be banned outright. Like Chad has stated, many accidents (actually most if not all) happen with common 40 sized sport planes (that is not opinion but factual) than any other.

Are we to ban pylon racing and other planes that fly "too fast" for someone's liking?

Are we to ban helicopters because of the potential for injury?

What about a 30 or 40 pound large scale model because they too "have the potential" to cause a lot of harm?

Jets due to the potential for fire, speeds, etc...

My point is, one's personal opinion cannot make the rules for everyone else. That is why we have committee's and meetings to address these issues. I dont feel at all that I am going tocause anyone to "go out and commit acts of dangerous flight" simply due to my belief that 3D flying, if performed in the proper setting and by a qualified person, is indeed safe.

I will stand for the rights of other pilots however when I feel they are being attacked without just cause.

Please dont use my position as a chairman to try and make me withdraw my personal beliefs and "hop on your bandwagon" - safety is one of my prime goals, but accidents as we know due unfortunately happen, even when all precuations are being taken.

Your statement that it is "clearly dangerous" cannot make sense to me. What exactly is "clear" about it? Is doing a pass at 150 mph with my jet, or with one of my fast prop planes "clearly dangerous"...? I bet it is to some people. But should we ban it? What about my "clearly dangerous" 30 pound aerobatic model? It is "clearly" too heavy to be deemed safe...

That is my point - the situation is not so clear.

Whatever flying you all care to participate in, just do it safe and dont exceed your skill levels. Make sure your models and gear are all in airworthy condition and respect the other pilots when you fly. What more can I say??

Respectfully,
Andrew Coholic

[AJCoholic]

"You are a well respected individual in this hobby & there a plenty of foolish, but tallented pilots, who will be encouraged by your remarks to do these stupid stunts. "


This remark is totally unfair, and I feel based on nothing factual but 100% your dislike of aerobatic flying. It really bothers me, that you are trying to use the reputation I have garnered from years of safe enjoyment in this hobby and outright implying that by not taking your stance I am in some way going to "help" cause an accident. This I take seriously, and it is very insulting to me.

[AJCoholic]

"If our insurers ever saw a picture like that, we would be out on the street as far as insurance goes. We can hardly say that we always fly safely with stunts like that being extolled as a good thing to do."

Then I certainly hope they dont look at ANY of the model magazines published in the last 7 or 8 years, and never look at the main websites in use representing the hobby....

[AJCoholic]

This isn't about curtailing fun -- that photo isn't funny, or fun, it is rank stupidity, & encouraging that behaviour is the last thing that we should be doing.


The last I will say on this...

That photo where you ASSUMED Quique is touching his plane, is in fact not true. In the photo, he is merely holding up one hand to show his "one handed torque roll" manouver, and is no where near enough the plane to touch it. Assumptions can be dangerous....