[flytwice]

Hello Peter: It was a real pleasure to meet the fellow behind this build! I really enjoyed the whole experience at the Kawartha Scale Classics this past weekend. Well-- OK, wasn't too thrilled about the weather! I drove down thru about 80 miles of sporadic light rain to get there, and almost 100 miles of heavier rain to get home.
The flying was fantastic, your members most helpful thruout the whole process. I learned more about precision flying in two days than I might in several seasons by attending. Your event has opened a new door to rc flying!
Thankyou very much for the invitation, now to get on with practise!! flytwice

[Caygeon Flyer]

Thanks for the great feedback.

We are glad that your enjoyed it!!


Results and photos are posted on the event website: www.kawarthaclassicscale.com

Caygeon Flyer

[flytwice]

Hi Peter: A new build to start soon on Twin Otter or Buffalo, can't decide on which one to do first. then a 60" Hurricane.
I came back here and flew several of the flight patterns as practise for next year!! got some more flying on the 96" Turbo Beaver, I'll be attending the KW Scale event in Sept.
Maybe I'll see you there! flytwice

[flytwice]

Hello Peter: I recieved the framed pictures in the mail the other day. What a treat, great way to remember the day.
Thanks so much to you and all the members of your club. your event definitely arroused some interest. One of our members was there Sat, is already putting together plans for a build for your event next year! Another who attended has a very nice Cub ready to maiden and intends to fly your classic too! there may be more yet.
Of course I'll be there with something to molest the sky.
Now, if you put the word in where it has to be put (up there), maybe we will be granted 2 nicedays in a row- hehe.
Thanks again for the great event! Doug flytwice

[Caygeon Flyer]

Thanks for the feedback flytwice.

Mark your calendar for August 6 & 7, 2011

Caygeon Flyer

[Ken Robinson]

Caygeon Flyer

I was searching the scale forum for ideas for scale/semi-scale hinges and control surfaces and found your thread. I would like to build either a Buffalo or Caribou this winter, but don't know how to go about finding accurate hinge information nor how to simulate it on a model. The photos I have found seem to have a very large hinge pivot hanging below the flaps and I'm not sure about the ailerons. Did DeHavilland use the same set-up for the Buffalo as they used for the Beaver? Can you point me in a direction that will allow me how to create scale hinges/surfaces? I am also unsure of the shape of the trailing edge of the wing with relation to the leading edge of the flaps, ailerons, rudder and elevator.

Originally Posted by Caygeon Flyer

Wing Hinges
One of the few things that I did not care for in the MR Aerodesign Beaver were the hinges for the flaps and ailerons. The hinge point is in the right scale position relative to the wing, but the parts do not look very scale like.
I made my own hinge parts from 0.040” and 0.060” aluminum. They are bolted to the ribs in the wing, aileron and flap. The hinge pin is a 2-56 bolt, set in a nylon bushing to avoid metal-to-metal contact.

One picture shows the wing portion being installed, and the jigs that I used to ensure proper spacing and positioning.
Another picture shows the portion for the control surfaces and the jig that I used to put the kink in them.

[Caygeon Flyer]

The root airfoil for the Buffalo / Caribou is a NACA NACA 63A417. The tip airfoil is NACA 63A615. This can be found at http://www.ae.illinois.edu/m-selig/ads/aircraft.html , although it may be hard to find a plot of it. DHC did a lot of proprietary research on their airfoils. The hinge point does need to be well below the wing to get the flaps and ailerons to deploy properly, and to get the right slot effect.

The best way to get the hinge dimensions is to find a full size aircraft and measure it. It will be hard to get this information from a three-view. Even if you cannot measure it, if you can get closeup pictures of the hinges, you may be able to scale them from the photo. The best deal is to find an aircraft in an overhaul shop, as it will be partially disassembled, and you can get good detail photos.

Alternatively, search the web for photos. I have a couple that show that the ailerons also droop with the flaps, like those on the Beaver and Otter.

A second choice would be to get a good plastic model and scale them from that. This also could give you the shapes of the trailing edges.

A third alternative would be to find a Buffalo / Caribou Maintenance or Repair manual or the Spare parts manual. Some of the aviation book websites may have them. For Example try www.rareaviation.com

I have picked up a lot of good detail on the Beaver from those types of manuals. I tried to make mine function as close to the full size as possible. I made the hinge brackets from 1/16" aluminum plate, and bolted them to ribs in the wing and the control surfaces, using a nylon spacer at the pivot point to avoid metal to metal contact.
The Beaver only had a one part flap, it looks like the Buffalo has a two part, which will make the job more challenging.

A fourth choice would be to contact Viking Air in Victoria. They are now the owners of all the drawings.

Hope this helps

Caygeon Flyer

Originally Posted by Ken Robinson

Caygeon Flyer

I was searching the scale forum for ideas for scale/semi-scale hinges and control surfaces and found your thread. I would like to build either a Buffalo or Caribou this winter, but don't know how to go about finding accurate hinge information nor how to simulate it on a model. The photos I have found seem to have a very large hinge pivot hanging below the flaps and I'm not sure about the ailerons. Did DeHavilland use the same set-up for the Buffalo as they used for the Beaver? Can you point me in a direction that will allow me how to create scale hinges/surfaces? I am also unsure of the shape of the trailing edge of the wing with relation to the leading edge of the flaps, ailerons, rudder and elevator.

[Caygeon Flyer]

PS: try checking the thread https://www.rccanada.ca/rccforum/showthread.php?t=107423

CF

[Caygeon Flyer]

For those interested, this is a response to a PM.

I had not checked my model yet for incidence.
The data that I have indicates that the Full Scale Beaver has 0 degrees wing incidence, and -2 degrees on the stab. I will post a reference drawing on the forum.

The datum line on the MRAerodesign side-view drawing is near the front, just above the note "1 degree down thrust" and the line through the engine centreline. The datum is parallel to the bottom of the fuselage at the cabin.

The full scale Beaver measurements are with the cabin floor level - which is parallel to the bottom of the fuse.

The middle stringer is on a different angle.
Assuming that the plans are correct, and based on the fuse bottom being the level datum, I measure on the plans a wing incidence of about + 1 degree, and a stab incidence of 0 degrees.

A quick check of my model (which is not fully assembled yet) indicates that it is about the same settings.

So it looks like your idea is correct. However, I suggest that you contact MR Aerodesign for their advice. I have found Martin to be quite helpful, and his prototype flew well.

For added information -- I have been flying a similar size Beaver model from the Unionville kit for a number of years. It is set up with +2.8 degrees on the wing and 0 on the stabilizer.

Caygeon Flyer

I have been following your MRAerodesign build- beautiful job. I am also building one and at stage of attaching tail stab. I cannot see on the plans any incidence references.
The wing is fixed as per tube and round peg. So sitting the tail on "0" I get -1 on wing. i.e. Tail is just resting on a ply cradle.
I should think I need to alter tail to get at least +1on wing.
As far as I can tell the middle stringer on the fuselage side is the datum line, which also gives me the same. So if I make the tail "0" with datum line on fuselage I should get +1 on wing.
Is this what you have ???
Thanks for help

[Caygeon Flyer]

Control Throws

The Control throws were not included on the kit plans. I have been a believer that a good starting point for control throws should be the throws used on the full size aircraft.

At first, these were hard to find, but with enough rooting around …. I found them. Actually I got some good help from the Beaver Chat room on Yahoo, in the form of a Rigging Diagram used by the British military. This helped to make sense of the information that I found in the FAA Type Certificate and the STC for a Beaver modification.

Here is the data.

Control Throws
Ailerons Up 13.00 deg (corrected from 18 deg Sept 12)
Ailerons Down 11.00 deg
Aileron Droop with full flap 15.00 deg
Elevator Up 28.00 deg
Elevator Down 20.00 deg
Rudder Right 25.00 deg
Rudder left 25.00 deg
Flap Setting at inboard hinge -- 0 - Cruise 0.00 deg
Flap Setting at inboard hinge -- 15 - Climb 15.00 deg
Flap Setting at inboard hinge -- 35 - Take Off 35.00 deg
Flap Setting at inboard hinge -- 50 - Landing 50.00 deg
Flap Setting at inboard hinge -- 58 - Full 58.00 deg

Ailerons Up at tip 4.20 In
Ailerons Down at tip 2.50 In
Aileron Droop at tip with full flap 3.50 In
Elevator Up at 8" from aircraft CL 10.90 In
Elevator Down at 8" from aircraft CL 7.60 In
Rudder Right at bottom 11.40 In
Rudder left at bottom 11.40 In
Flap Setting TE at inboard hinge -- 0 - Cruise 0.00 In
Flap Setting TE at inboard hinge -- 15 - Climb 3.50 In
Flap Setting TE at inboard hinge -- 35 - Take Off .....
Flap Setting TE at inboard hinge -- 50 - Landing .....
Flap Setting TE at inboard hinge -- 58 - Full 12.30 In

Note that for a Mark III Turbo Beaver, down elevator is 23 degrees.


Caygeon Flyer