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03-12-2018, 12:18 PM | #1 |
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Fake C lipo labels & IR readings
I got into reading about Fake C lipo labels & IR readings after flying my FLY FLY 90mm BAE Hawk this fall, the performance was lacking and many of you suggested I needed new lipos but what to buy and I wanted to know what shape my new but 3 year old stored Zippy 6S 5000 mah 30C packs were doing after 6 flights, the WATT meter showed a pull of 60 amps on the HET 5 blade fan and HET 1700kv motor.
I was able to borrow a Wayne Giles IR meter and test the IR on my packs - the Lipoly Objective Performance Calculation Tool at http://jj604.com/LiPoTool/ gave my new but old Zippy 6S 5000 30C packs a true C rating of 14C, and possible max. cont. amps of 70 amps, the highest cell IR on the beter pack was 5.76. A screen shot of IR spreadsheet is shown. That got me into reading about the fake C labels on Lipos and the majority of packs seem to test at 30% to 45% of the actual label shown on the pack. The thread that got me on my week of IR reading and fake C was this one https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show...Meter-fo-Lipos and https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show...ngs-Scam-Alert Do any of you test your lipos for IR with an accurate IR meter - if so what are your results on your EDF packs? thanks - ken |
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03-12-2018, 01:19 PM | #2 |
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Re: Fake C lipo labels & IR readings
I’m pretty sure my iCharger can do IR, but I’ve never put much thought into it. I have some Revolectrix and Gens Ace that I use for my Avanti and A10. They all come down warm, I fly by the timer. I can see battery voltage in the Avanti, but it’s such a short flight, and the battery voltage changes so drastically with throttle position, I just try to be conservative.
I have some pretty old 4s 3300’s, I would be interested in seeing what they have for IR. It’s too bad the battery manufacturers aren’t held to accurate labels. Daren
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03-12-2018, 02:02 PM | #3 |
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Re: Fake C lipo labels & IR readings
I use my Icharger and Tunigy Reaktor to measure Pack IR.
I do this on all my new packs and also track my old packs on a spreadsheet. I check IR about annually to see if there are any packs that are negatively trending. I have noticed that same thing with my older packs- True pack C is considerably less than the rated C. I chalk that up to age. For this reason I rate my packs as "A", "B" or "C". Its just something I made up for my own reference. A packs go on EDF and 3D helis. B packs run great in prop-jobs and scale helis. C packs are getting near the retirement cutoff. Use them on low-power aircraft (floater-type), FPV groundstations, powering my ghetto blaster, etc....
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03-12-2018, 03:07 PM | #4 |
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Re: Fake C lipo labels & IR readings
IR readings are all relative from cell to cell; with them coming to a close match is the better issue as to pack health. Get three chargers doing IR readings on the same pack and you could get three different readings.
Part of the reason you can get different pricing levels with more effort of a supplier using the lowest IR and best matched cells in a Pack ,usually dictates in higher pricing. The concept of doing a couple of charge and discharges and then taking an IR reading of each cell in each pack and then recording it . Start with new cells Gives you a base with which to use , down the road for degraded performance use. Also recording the use type may also be a good idea ie heli, edf , sport flying. Also use the same tester down the road as different chargers can supply differing results as mentioned. A charger that does an IR check and checks all the cells at one shot is the better choice. Puts it in the ballpark In any case As real accurate measuring devices and expertise are well beyond our pocketbooks. Max’s idea is great on the spreadsheet or similiar. Last edited by stegl; 03-12-2018 at 03:16 PM. |
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03-12-2018, 03:38 PM | #5 |
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Re: Fake C lipo labels & IR readings
Max i think through the bump it will map to a tablet and track each battery .
I havent figured that all out but a heli guy showed me Mine is still all new to me
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03-12-2018, 07:06 PM | #6 |
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Re: Fake C lipo labels & IR readings
I have the same Lipo ESR meter Ken and it works very well and does seem to give a pretty accurate C rating and a dead accurate IR. I also check with my I Charger as it is so simple to just hit status and see it. The main thing I do to check the health of my packs is plug in my JR battery checker after each flight , I check to see how even the cells are right after the flight.
The Lipo ESR Meter is a great tool. https://www.progressiverc.com/univer...sis-meter.html
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03-12-2018, 07:11 PM | #7 | |
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Re: Fake C lipo labels & IR readings
Quote:
Hi, how do you find your actual C ratings via the IR meter compare with C rating on the pack label? |
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03-12-2018, 07:25 PM | #8 |
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Re: Fake C lipo labels & IR readings
Just wondering what you compare the ESR meter to , in regard to it’s accuracy ?
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03-12-2018, 07:32 PM | #9 | |
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I am: Ken K.
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Re: Fake C lipo labels & IR readings
Quote:
a clip from the thread " It measures the effective resistance by applying a pulse load of controlled constant current load of 16A to the pack, measuring the voltage just before the start of the pulse and again just before the end of the pulse. It then does the maths of subtracting the last figure from the first figure, divides the answer by 16 to give result in ohms and divides that by 1000 to display the answer in milliohms. I have compared the results with those from chargers and generally they vary by up to 150% more. The meter agrees with the figures from actual loading results when power testing whereas the charger results are higher, I think because of the endothermic effect of charging and because most chargers do not use a 4 wire Kelvin connection so that the connectors are included in cell figures. The unit will measure any chemistry provided that the pack is between 7V and 30V and the cell voltage is less than 5V." |
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03-12-2018, 11:01 PM | #10 |
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Re: Fake C lipo labels & IR readings
As far as accuracy who knows exactly (the designer I guess who explains it clearly if you understand what he is saying i guess) .But for us simple folk, start checking several different battery's and test how they perform, you will quickly see that it shows you which one is the better battery and very clearly. Do I really need to know how accurate it is if it can tell me the weaker batter that gets hot and does not perform as well shows a 12c rating and the battery that performs better and runs cooler tests at 32c . Now I know that when I test a pack and it shows low IR and a 30C rating that I have a good pack. Does that not tell us all we need to know?
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