[50%300SFlyer]

Originally Posted by can773

With a comment like that it is no surprise that SA in western Canada is not going anywhere. I can hear us out west going....."then why the hell should we waste our time travelling down east..."

Chad,

At the SA Nationals held in Ottawa this past year, there was not one competitor there from west of Ontario. Why do you think that is?

I can tell you why... It was not because of any East vs West issue! Its a simple matter of geography and costs. The # of competitors in SA is quite low out West, its a long way to travel, and its very expensive.... End of story. It has NOTHING to do with any East vs West mentality! And quite frankly Im disappointed that it was even mentioned.

[Ken W]

We already have a provincial points championship.If they (west) can get enough interest for an adequate SA nationals contest, then they should be allowed to have it.
Being realistic,Mike has a valid point in saying there is not enough interest to go ahead. So I see no reason why anyone else ( where there is enough numbers and interest) to have one instead.
The last thing any CD wants is to go through all the work of setting up a contest and not having enough particapants.

[Guest]

Originally Posted by 50%300SFlyer

Chad,

At the SA Nationals held in Ottawa this past year, there was not one competitor there from west of Ontario. Why do you think that is?

I can tell you why... It was not because of any East vs West issue! Its a simple matter of geography and costs. The # of competitors in SA is quite low out West, its a long way to travel, and its very expensive.... End of story. It has NOTHING to do with any East vs West mentality! And quite frankly Im disappointed that it was even mentioned.

Well if you never promote events out west, and no one from the east supports them by attending you will not foster growth in SA out here. Simple as that. Its not about cost, if someone wants to go they will go, but they have to want to go. Its just like going to Muncie for us, its 3500 km one way and every year its never hard to find people to go, the last thing that comes up is cost.

We have been there and done that in pattern, I guarantee if you use the numbers game to force National events to be in eastern Canada year after year you will never get SA going out west. Its your SIG and if you are satisfied with the way it is thats OK....I know a few SA guys who are starting to take up pattern, we are more than happy to switch them over

I have competed in both ends of this country, there IS an east vs. west mentality....like it or not it does exist.

[Guest]

Originally Posted by Ken W

We already have a provincial points championship.If they (west) can get enough interest for an adequate SA nationals contest, then they should be allowed to have it.
Being realistic,Mike has a valid point in saying there is not enough interest to go ahead. So I see no reason why anyone else ( where there is enough numbers and interest) to have one instead.
The last thing any CD wants is to go through all the work of setting up a contest and not having enough particapants.

Yes but if you never have one you will never foster any growth.

This is virtually identical to the situation pattern was faced with about 6-7 years ago. Basically the core eastern group of flyers did not think it was worth the effort to travel out west for major events because there were no flyers out here.

Well we forced (acutally hijacked) the committee to have a team trials out west, and although no one from western Canada made the team it showed that we do have guys that can compete. Since then we have had more team trials/Nats in western Canada, good movement of flyers across the country to attend events and basically an elimination of any east vs. west thing.

We basically now have a very strong national committee directing pattern with almost a 100% participation rate in committee business. Lots of events with good participation, a Nats every year regardless of combined or not. Everyone no matter of location is on equal footing, this was all fostered through involvement in both ends of the country. It was not easy, there was a lot of fighting surrounding it but it worked and we are better off for it.

So I will say it again Do as you please, its your SIG, pattern will gladly take the SA converts when they realize that SA is going nowhere out here

We are stuck with the size of our Nation.

A National Champion is a competitor who has invested the time, effort and money to compete at that level anywhere in the Nation against all challengers. If anybody is not prepared to meet those requirements then they do not qualify for the title.

Ed S

[50%300SFlyer]

Originally Posted by can773

Well if you never promote events out west, and no one from the east supports them by attending you will not foster growth in SA out here. Simple as that. Its not about cost, if someone wants to go they will go, but they have to want to go. Its just like going to Muncie for us, its 3500 km one way and every year its never hard to find people to go, the last thing that comes up is cost.

We have been there and done that in pattern, I guarantee if you use the numbers game to force National events to be in eastern Canada year after year you will never get SA going out west. Its your SIG and if you are satisfied with the way it is thats OK....I know a few SA guys who are starting to take up pattern, we are more than happy to switch them over

I have competed in both ends of this country, there IS an east vs. west mentality....like it or not it does exist.

Chad,

In making a decision to attend a Nationals 5000- 6000 KM away, the costs of doing so are definitely one of the factors is when making this decision We are not all rich like you Pattern guys!

Travelling there and back, with several GS airplanes themselves, [which are not cheap to begin with] perhaps towing a trailer, 10 travellings days meals and motels, not to mention the cost of meals and accommodation while your there, gasoline to make the trip, ARE ALL indeed VERY relevant! I don't know how you can even imagine otherwise, let alone say its not a factor!

If the guys from out west think they can pull this off then more power to them!!... AND I would be willing to help in any way I can! But as I stated, I don't see that currently happening given the current #s.

We have converted a few Pattern guys to SA here too.

[Guest]

I don't know how you can even imagine otherwise, let alone say its not a factor!

Its easy I have witnessed it....if someone really wants to go they will go simple as that. If you have spent money on a plane and time practising for the Nats you will spend the money to travel otherwise the former was lost money and time. Get a group of guys and go....we can do Muncie 3500km one way in 2 days each way for about $600-$700 US each including meals, travel, hotels and the entry fee.

Besides its not 5000-6000 km away more like 4400

Its your SIG, promote it how you want, but as a Westerner with a western perspective who has competed down east I can almost guarantee the attitude of most will be if you dont support a Nationals held in the west you wont get any support from the west for a Nats held in the east.

A few easterner made the trek to compete in pattern at the last Vancouver Nats, and it went a long way to fostering a good national relationship within pattern.

Its up to you to determine if this is acceptable for SA in Canada.

[50%300SFlyer]

Originally Posted by can773

Its easy I have witnessed it....if someone really wants to go they will go simple as that. If you have spent money on a plane and time practising for the Nats you will spend the money to travel otherwise the former was lost money and time. Get a group of guys and go....we can do Muncie 3500km one way in 2 days each way for about $600-$700 US each including meals, travel, hotels and the entry fee.

Besides its not 5000-6000 km away more like 4400

Its your SIG, promote it how you want, but as a Westerner with a western perspective who has competed down east I can almost guarantee the attitude of most will be if you don't support a Nationals held in the west you wont get any support from the west for a Nats held in the east.

If you say so Chad... Who better than you to know whats going on in the head of most SA pilots, and their finances.

Oh...And from eastern Ontario to Vancouver BC it is 5000km, and even more from Quebec. But I guess Mapquest is wrong too...

Ive had enough here. If anyone wishes to contact me privately about this issue, Id be more than happy to discuss it with them.

[Guest]

Originally Posted by 50%300SFlyer

If you say so Chad... Who better than you to know whats going on in the head of most SA pilots, and their finances.

Oh...And from eastern Ontario to Vancouver BC it is 5000km, and even more from Quebec. But I guess Mapquest is wrong too...

Ive had enough here. If anyone wishes to contact me privately about this issue, Id be more than happy to discuss it with them.

Take a pill Mike, I am offering a different point of view....I dont fly SA so I dont really care if you have a Nats or not...its up to you if you want to alienate half the country. Remember Alberta is the second largest zone in Canada with BC close behind, thats a lot of potential SA flyers you are losing.

[jamesbissonjr]

I didn't think this was going to turn into a full blown arguement and really wish it hadn't.

Here's my view on the Nats being out there. I just started in IMAC last season and with only one contest under my belt, I am NOT a seasoned competitor. The NATS are something I want to experience as much as anyone else, and see what my skill level is compared with other flyers from around the country in my category. I may miss the NATS again this year due to a birth and that really doesn't bother me. Sooner or later I will experience it.

Originally Posted by Morison

And people wonder what there is east vs. west animosity

I know a whole bunch of people who are 'into' scale aerobatics adn to say that there won't be enough compeitors to hold SA a nationals in some 18 months from now is really shortsighted.
I would suggest that as SA chair it is you duty to build the interest in SA and support the people out west that want to learn and grow in their competition skills. THAT is how you ensure that the event is held!

Originally Posted by can773

With a comment like that it is no surprise that SA in western Canada is not going anywhere. I can hear us out west going....."then why the hell should we waste our time travelling down east..."

If you huddle down east and dont promote outside your own region SA will stay in your own region.

My main issue is like Mike said, I can't recall seeing or hearing any reports of results from a SA contest held out west. Yes there's been talk around the forums and such but that's all I've read. Like I said in my earlier post, I really DO hope that SA pilots spring up before the 06 NATS to fill that SIG, and that more clubs take initiative to host IMAC and SA events. I don't think it's fair to knock Mike and say he's not promoting SA in the West. He does that through our MAAC magazine in hopes that people will take charge and have some events during the summer. I'm sure he didn't personally go out and get all the events that are run out here started himself, people took the initiative to organize them themselves more than likely with advice and guidance from him and others who have been competing for some time.

Originally Posted by can773

Its not about cost, if someone wants to go they will go, but they have to want to go. Its just like going to Muncie for us, its 3500 km one way and every year its never hard to find people to go, the last thing that comes up is cost.

I don't know what Mikes finances are like but for people like myself who don't make a lot of money, have a family to raise and live mostly from pay to pay, we can't afford to make that trip, NO MATTER HOW BAD I WANT to go! It just isn't going to happen.

I personally don't see boundaries and again would love to see it succeed and hope it does. Not only for the Sig, but also for the competitors who may be waiting for this opportunity, and also for the organizers taking on the NATS. I will truly be disappointed though, as inexperienced a competitor as I am, to see no participation and the SIG be cancelled. It's just something we'll have to wait for to see what happens.