[Phil Noel]

Originally Posted by bensidus197217

I have another question for you two, do fly bar less control units keep the helicopter level in a hover without any input from me? With fly barred helicopters you always have to keep on the stick or they will tip one way or the other and crash if you don't watch the helicopters angle in a hover. Thanks in advance!

Both systems, Flybar and FBL, when properly set up, will keep your heli level in the hover with no input from you, and just drift downwind.

For many years I have demonstrated the stability of a flybar system using my Hawk Pro and hovering right side up and lifting both arms up (my TX is on a TX tray)....ditto inverted.

What some FBL systems can do better, if they have SL (self leveling) firmware, is to be able to fly your heli back to level when you get disoriented and hit the SL switch. This of course assumes you have enough altitude to give it time to do so. Some even have a CR (Captain Rescue) feature that will not only level it out, but put it in a gradual climb until you release the switch.

I find that most people will learn the basics of heli flight easiest with a heli that is set-up for gentle, smooth flying. This means they will have the heli set with a relatively small collective range (e.g. +9/-4) and a smaller cyclic range (e.g. +/- 6). This combined with a slower head speed (e.g. 1600) will make any 550 sized heli more docile and predictable, which is very good for the less experienced. Later, as one gains more confidence and competence, the heli (even one with a flybar) can be set for higher head speeds and greater pitch ranges to make it maneuver at a faster rate.

The BIG advantage of an FBL system, for 3D flying, is the extra collective pitch range and extra cyclic pitch range they provide before any control binding will occur. Of course this type of set-up will make the heli very sensitive to any command and make it more difficult to learn with.

The most collective pitch range one can get from a 3D type of flybar head is +12/-12 and for cyclic is +7/-7. While most FBL heads can be set for +15/-15 and +/-11 or so. Therefore if one has a power system that can pull these pitches without bogging excessively, then one will have a very quick maneuvering heli indeed - but one that is very sensitive to all controls. Of course this would be where a fair bit of exponential can be used to help tame the beast.

[DominicD]

Originally Posted by Phil Noel

The BIG advantage of an FBL system, for 3D flying, is the extra collective pitch range and extra cyclic pitch range they provide before any control binding will occur. Of course this type of set-up will make the heli very sensitive to any command and make it more difficult to learn with.

I am afraid I have to disagree with you here Phil. A FBL system has no more range than a flybarred system (a gross over-simplification but hear me out). A FBL system has no control over the collective pitch of the heli, it just uses it for pre-compensation on other controls, so the collective range is entirely setup the way the pilot wants. The cyclic pitch on a FBL system is generally setup to have about +-10 or +-11 degree of cyclic pitch, which the control loop will use entirely to best accomplish the pilot's commanded desired rotational rate.

With a flybarred setup you would setup the pilot's cyclic input to control the rotational response (including flybar length, paddle geometry, and bell-hiller ratios ...). You could easily accomplish +-8 to +-10 degrees on most helis I owned or setup. But here is the kicker because of the bell-hiller mixing the cyclic pitch on the blades was MUCH higher and could easily exceed +-18 degrees (remember why you had to measure pitch with the flybar level).

A FBL heli is no more or less responsive a heli than a flybarred machine. Both methods the response of the heli was entirely due to how the pilot wanted it. You can make a FBL machine as docile or hummingbird fast as you want, it is just a matter of turning a dial. A flybarred heli didn't have that dial but you could change the mechanics of the head or the mixing ranges in the radio to accomplish the same thing.

The advantages of the FBL setup is that you don't have to trade off cyclic response and cyclic stability, you can have both at the same time. This was MUCH more difficult to accomplish with a flybarred heli and you almost always had to trade one off for another.

[bensidus197217]

My big question here is, can a FBL heli be flown easier than a fly barred once both are set up? I fly only scale no rapid turns or 3D I just want something that will stay level without a constant input from me.

[Keyrigger]

Hi Jim:

In certain windy conditions, a flybarless helicopter might be a bit smoother in flight but the two are no different to fly in terms of scale flight. I just bought another Logo 5003D (flybarred version this time) which I am going to use as a trainer to become proficient with autorotation landings. I could do some 3D flight before I went to scale helicopters but I didn't get as far as full autorotation landings or reverse flight. I am now going to use this older helicopter (it might be from before 2007) to get these two maneuvers learned and understood.

I don't normally apply a lot of stick motion when I am flying around the club in circuits as it makes the helicopter flight look jerky. I have added lots of expo so that any twitching I might input to the transmitter is not reflected in the flight, itself. No matter which one you choose, you will need to trim and balance it correctly for it to remain in a stable, hands-off hover (naturally on a dead calm day) and once you get that, the flying will become easier to manage as you are not constantly correcting for drift. Hope this helps.

Don

[bensidus197217]

That helps Don thank you, so the only advantage for me is the scale look with no fly bar. You know when your heli drifts and then starts to lean does the FBL unit help prevent that or does the heli maintain it's crash course and continue on it's path?

[HAL9KPCM]

Any heli going off course, flybar of FBL, will maintain that drift. If it's a crash course, it will crash. I converted my gasser from flybar to FBL and can't say I noticed any real difference between the two. It's still smooth, still sits stable in a hover. It's much cleaner in appearance, less things sticking out to snag on when you're hauling it around, fewer parts to get bent and need replacing after a crash. Less to line up again when doing the repair.

[bensidus197217]

Thanks, so it looks like the only advantage is less parts to deal with I guess that alone is an extra positive.

[OntAeronut]

I changed my Swift Carbon 550 over to flybarless, what a difference. Highly reconmend doing it. I use a Beastx clone to keep the cost down since it's a cheap heli to begin with.

[gixerfien]

FBL is definitely more stable than flybarred for sure, did the switch over last summer.

There way more advantages to it over flybarred for sure.

And pretty much everything is FBL nowadays anyways

[bensidus197217]

OntAeronut I have a Beastx on the way tell me what was the Beast x clone you have? gixerfien thanks for your input it looks like I'm on the right track. Before my FBL head shows up can I convert the flybarred one into FBL so I can start setting it up?