[RAMJET]

[QUOTE=moo;979016]getting technical:

AN4004 - Interference Mitigation Challenges and Solutions in the 2.4 to 2.5 GHz ISM Band
http://www.cypress.com/?docID=29872[/QU crashing 3 planes in


this still does not explain the difference in frequency of plane crashes from a JR-12x to a dx something using the same spektrum technology. or are you saying all the guys I fly with using 12x radios are just lucky because I have never seen a problem at our field(DSM 2 or DSMX). I can tell you if 3 planes went in at our field all in one day because of the same type of radio it would be the last time you ever saw that radio at our field. do you really believe the guys spending $5000-$10000 a plane are loosing there planes at this alarming rate. you have to face facts , owners of the DX line are posting they are having problems with these radios seeing as I know for a fact this technology can be used with no problems how can these problems be anything other than the reliability of the cheaper line of radios.another fact some of the dx stuff works great some are crap. how do you explain that you can make a dx radio with no problems and some have nothing but problems .you don`t see problems like this with quality radios .

[fsone]

First of all let me say this i fly at 2 different fields.i know of about 15 individuals who use DX7 and DX8 none of them have ever had an issue.like someone else had mentioned before about 99% of the time it's pilot error eithier by dumb fingers or by not reading instructions properly on working their equipment,or abuse of equipment.Yes there will be the odd problem with equipment it's electronics for goodness sake.I don't believe for one moment Spektrum is making a low grade product.Spektrum is selling large large volumes of equipment that's why they can sell for a better price than the competition.For those of you who are purchasing Spektrum products to mix and match with JR,futaba etc why!!You say their products are good to use with your equipment but you cut down their other products?Which i am sure are made at the same plant.Let's put it this way assembled under the same scrutiny that comes from making all Spektrum products.The Futaba guy's are afraid to tell you about the problems they have had.I was a Futaba guy still have 4 txs .I switched 4 yrs ago to Spektrum happy i did.It's a matter of choice is one better than the other NOOOOOOOOO!I had a problem with a futaba radio,did i change brands because of the problems no! I changed because i liked the feel of the tx,i liked all the features it has and yes the good customer support Spektrum gives to their customers. And yes the price is good for what i believe is a good product.Oh i forgot to mention the styling.

[d_orgera]

I witnessed a run-away plane today at our field. It was training night and I stayed to watch the students for a while. One very able student was taking his wings test. He did all his pre-flight checks, then lined up to take off with the instructor standing beside him. Three minutes into his flight, he was just flying simple slow left-hand circuits when suddenly his trainer went full throttle, climbed way up, then did a half-loop, flipped and headed away from the field at full throttle with wings level. I turned to another instructor sitting next to me and asked "is this part of the test?" Then we both realized the plane was actually out of control. Neither the pilot nor his instructor were able to regain control as the plane faded into a dot off in the distance. Fortunately it was headed out to wide-open farm land, mostly covered in corn, (good luck finding it), so it was unlikely that there would be damage or injury as a result of the run-away. They were using a Spektrum DX6I with a DX5 buddy box...not sure if it was DMS2 or DSMX, but it was apparently all new, so I'm thinking X. If it lost radio contact, what happened to the fail-safe?

[stegl]

Was the airplane powered by electrics or fuel ?

[RAMJET]

Originally Posted by fsone

First of all let me say this i fly at 2 different fields.i know of about 15 individuals who use DX7 and DX8 none of them have ever had an issue.like someone else had mentioned before about 99% of the time it's pilot error eithier by dumb fingers or by not reading instructions properly on working their equipment,or abuse of equipment.Yes there will be the odd problem with equipment it's electronics for goodness sake.I don't believe for one moment Spektrum is making a low grade product.Spektrum is selling large large volumes of equipment that's why they can sell for a better price than the competition.For those of you who are purchasing Spektrum products to mix and match with JR,futaba etc why!!You say their products are good to use with your equipment but you cut down their other products?Which i am sure are made at the same plant.Let's put it this way assembled under the same scrutiny that comes from making all Spektrum products.The Futaba guy's are afraid to tell you about the problems they have had.I was a Futaba guy still have 4 txs .I switched 4 yrs ago to Spektrum happy i did.It's a matter of choice is one better than the other NOOOOOOOOO!I had a problem with a futaba radio,did i change brands because of the problems no! I changed because i liked the feel of the tx,i liked all the features it has and yes the good customer support Spektrum gives to their customers. And yes the price is good for what i believe is a good product.Oh i forgot to mention the styling.

Hi norm hows it going, that was my first thought ,if you check my first post I state that it must be setup . it's the posters that claim it's more then that(DX users) I have never owned one. I can only say I have never had a problem with a spektrum based setup so I know the technology works. seems strange to me there are so many posts like this ,I feel after reading all these posts there could be a possible QC issue here. I am sure you don't have any problems and I hope you never do but that does not mean that there isn't a problem with a % of them, you are no different then me you can't speak for the guys having problems if your not ,you just throw your chip in the hat as a guy with no problems. there are enough of these posts however to make me take pause . that's part of what you trade off with a cheaper radios, QC . I was just trying to give these posters something to compare to, what better than another radio using the same technology.I was considering a DX18 myself as a back up radio ,something to play around with , that is why I was checking these posts but I don't like what I am hearing . when I check a product I check for frequency and what type of failures there having . when a tire company had problems a few years back there were 100s of thousands of happy customers but those tires were hurting people when they failed, all tires fail but they failed at a much higher rate Qc issue. Trust me if I found this much info on the failures of the 12x I would be looking for a new radio regardless of my luck so far.

[d_orgera]

Originally Posted by d_orgera

I witnessed a run-away plane today at our field. It was training night and I stayed to watch the students for a while. One very able student was taking his wings test. He did all his pre-flight checks, then lined up to take off with the instructor standing beside him. Three minutes into his flight, he was just flying simple slow left-hand circuits when suddenly his trainer went full throttle, climbed way up, then did a half-loop, flipped and headed away from the field at full throttle with wings level. I turned to another instructor sitting next to me and asked "is this part of the test?" Then we both realized the plane was actually out of control. Neither the pilot nor his instructor were able to regain control as the plane faded into a dot off in the distance. Fortunately it was headed out to wide-open farm land, mostly covered in corn, (good luck finding it), so it was unlikely that there would be damage or injury as a result of the run-away. They were using a Spektrum DX6I with a DX5 buddy box...not sure if it was DMS2 or DSMX, but it was apparently all new, so I'm thinking X. If it lost radio contact, what happened to the fail-safe?

Originally Posted by stegl

Was the airplane powered by electrics or fuel ?

It was powered by glow fuel. I haven't heard yet if they found the wreckage or determined the cause of the run-away.

[John M.]

It's been said that: "don't believe anything that you hear, half of what you read and only part of what you see". And that was before the internet.

My take on it is that there may be a kernel of truth in that some failures are genuinely equipment related and all things were done right - this is real world and what defines "risk". But I don't believe that the technology is inherently flawed nor that the hardware is shipped with the vast majority borderline defective.

My guess is that when people went from AM to FM those new fangled radios would have taken a drubbing if the internet had been in existence at the time. It's human nature to be suspicious of change.

And Spektrum radios may make the news more often 'cause there's gotta be a lot of them out there relative to the others. And their recalls plus pre-emptive changing of circuit boards when radios are sent in for reported problems could be a corporate policy. Heavens, we've seen what happens when companies try to cover up! Truth may make one look bad in the short term but in the end it establishes a reputation of integrity.

For full disclosure I am totally new to and ignorant of 2.4 and just bought my first DX8 so I'm on a steep learning curve. That's been enough to make me realize that there are so many variables in a successful and reliable installation there is a multitude of things that could go wrong and be blamed on radio failure. So I'm going to be a good guinea pig!

Personally I'd like to see less argy bargy and more posts like Waylander's describing how the QC for components might be applied and the posts by others detailing the guts of the radios and a list of what could actually be going wrong. I lap that stuff up.

Bottom line: If modern equipment is fully understood by the user and installed, operated and maintained conscientiously according to the manufacturer's instructions the risk of failure is usually tolerably small. After all the alternative reward for a company that sells inferior stuff is called bankruptcy .............

[davidmc36]

Originally Posted by John Melnick

It's been said that: "don't believe anything that you hear, half of what you read and only part of what you see". And that was before the internet.

My take on it is that there may be a kernel of truth in that some failures are genuinely equipment related and all things were done right - this is real world and what defines "risk". But I don't believe that the technology is inherently flawed nor that the hardware is shipped with the vast majority borderline defective.

My guess is that when people went from AM to FM those new fangled radios would have taken a drubbing if the internet had been in existence at the time. It's human nature to be suspicious of change.

And Spektrum radios may make the news more often 'cause there's gotta be a lot of them out there relative to the others. And their recalls plus pre-emptive changing of circuit boards when radios are sent in for reported problems could be a corporate policy. Heavens, we've seen what happens when companies try to cover up! Truth may make one look bad in the short term but in the end it establishes a reputation of integrity.

For full disclosure I am totally new to and ignorant of 2.4 and just bought my first DX8 so I'm on a steep learning curve. That's been enough to make me realize that there are so many variables in a successful and reliable installation there is a multitude of things that could go wrong and be blamed on radio failure. So I'm going to be a good guinea pig!

Personally I'd like to see less argy bargy and more posts like Waylander's describing how the QC for components might be applied and the posts by others detailing the guts of the radios and a list of what could actually be going wrong. I lap that stuff up.

Bottom line: If modern equipment is fully understood by the user and installed, operated and maintained conscientiously according to the manufacturer's instructions the risk of failure is usually tolerably small. After all the alternative reward for a company that sells inferior stuff is called bankruptcy .............

I agree with your take here.

I am in the "never had a problem" camp.

I am quite ---- about how I set-up the installations and always maintain as much separation as possible between different components.

During 25 years of flying models the only scary situations I have seen were eratic flights due to: sloppy mechanical set-ups, poor balance, gross flying inexperience, selecting wrong model/radio.

YMMV

[elhepilot]

My DX8 back from HH is working well. I have had 18 flights with several different aircraft with several different Rxs including one Orange.
One of the planes which crashed before sending the Tx in for repair was a BNF Carbon Z Yak 54 with no changes to the installed electronics. There was no motor cutoff or slowdown at the time of the crash witch would have indicated a low battery voltage and I am very conservative on how much battery I use on a flight.
The other was a gasser with telemetry on the Rx battery voltage which gave no alarm for low voltage at the time of its crash.

[stegl]

Yes,,, Regarding the point that there are a lot of specktrum systems out there and that they have has a lots of issues; does make sence. Yet JR owners don't seem to have half the problems; since they are both on the same type DSM and derivative signal transmissions. Part of the explanation on this may also be the fact that sales of spektrum outnumber JR by a lot.
The fact that spektrum had and still is having problems caused me to stay away and select a FHSS system which seems to be less of an issue or no issue at all.
The system I selected is rock solid at extreme ranges and does not have a receiver low voltage issue ( down to 2 volts but servos quit at arround 3 volts + - .