Maac Mag April Issue - Page 11 - RCCanada - Canada Radio Controlled Hobby Forum
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Old 04-24-2010, 06:38 AM   #101
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Re: Maac Mag April Issue

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Originally Posted by 4*60 View Post
I think one of the points is being missed here. Distances don't matter. Perceived distances do.
And yes it's only a foamy, but I will bet now that helmets are in our future outdoors and protective eye wear indoors.
It's not being missed, it's being dismissed because it's not based on fact.

Perception is totally based on your point of view, the facts have already been explained to you, yet you choose to ignore them for the sake of your perception...the sky is not falling.
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Old 04-24-2010, 08:03 AM   #102
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Re: Maac Mag April Issue

Finally got my issue. Based on that cover this thread is absolutely ridiculous. To all you safety monkeys, get a grip! All this panic over our insurance coverage and perceived dangers is sucking the fun out of our hobby!

Richard Barlow was talking about how we need to get more new members. Well, to be honest, it was attitudes like have been displayed in this thread that almost made me shy away. All this old-school, over the top, safety talk is wearing very thin!

Yes, we have to be careful! Yes, there are risks to our insurance (hovering a foamy is not one of them, BTW), but you have to be reasonable. Put away your damn tinfoil hats for a minute and come back to reality! People making a big fuss over hovering a small indoor foamy (clearly not anywhere near the pilots as could be seen by anybody with half a brain not clouded by safety-nazi brainwashing) is what will bring risk to our insurance, not the act of enjoying our hobby.

There are bigger issues to worry about than crap like this. We're losing fields left and right, suitable land is getting harder and harder to find due to residential development, and membership is down across the board. Throwing more crap into the proverbial fan is not solving any of these issues. Common sense must prevail at some point.

I consider myself to be a very safety-minded pilot, but there is a line that needs to be drawn on this over-policing of our safety issues. Bringing attention to perceived safety issues is idiotic. Why don't we just start a thread about the worst possible outcome of any possible flying scenarios we can think of and send the link to our insurance company?!

This type of thread is no better than taking a video of doing something stupid with your aircraft and posting it on YouTube because now we're just creating perceived dangers where there weren't any actual dangers to begin with, which is just more ammo for the insurance companies that don't want to insure us.
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Old 04-24-2010, 08:22 AM   #103
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Smile Re: Maac Mag April Issue

Is the whole thread need for alarm...not really. We did had a incident where a member was cut just below the eye by a stray indoor, and we have taken steps to wear eyewear on a club level to prevent further injury. Safety first. Should this thread have gotten as big as it is...not really.
Randy is a nice guy tho...he just has a concern ...but it is difficult for him to understand why everyonel doesn't share his concern.
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Old 04-24-2010, 08:54 AM   #104
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Re: Maac Mag April Issue

When you look at the pic at first glance it does look somewhat dangerous and is flying in the face of our own safety code, guideline, policy or what wherever we all call it. The points that I think is not being considered are:

1. We set rules for for ourselves with our safety code and guidelines, Did this published incident break any of those? If not, then explain it that way. If it did, do not use statements like "I felt it was safe", "He is an experienced pilot", "It's just a foamy" to justify the incident. I have investigated far to many workplace accidents where the rules or procedures were not followed because an experienced worker felt it was safe.

Simply put if none our guidelines were breached simply say so but you have to admit the picture does seem to imply that they are much closer than really are.

2. It may be a small foamie and with it comes smaller risk, but risk none the less. So how do we address the arguement, one individual asks since the pilot in the photo can do that with his plane I should be able to do it with my slightly larger balsa with a bigger engine. Another pilot claims if the small balsa is allowed then so am I with my nitro powered plane, yet another asks if they all can why can't I with my much larger plane, and so on. Where is the line drawn and how is it explained. ( I personally have not yet gotten involved with indoor or 3D flying yet so it may be in our safety code as I cannot recall it.)

I am not trying to dampen the enjoyment of this hobby at all, I am a workplace safety professional in my business career and have seen many safety zelots on job sites. With flying RC it is no different, we manage our risks and we have our safety code and guidelines to do just that. Stray from those guidelines and we fail to manage the risk and then justifing our actions with statements like I quoted above simply is not acceptable.

Again if they individuals associated with the photo say there was NO infringement of our policies then there was no problem.


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Old 04-24-2010, 10:33 AM   #105
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Re: Maac Mag April Issue

I have a bit of a re think on this thread.Not putting in doubt the talent of the folks involved but a full scale pilot with over 13000 hours flying water bombers died in a crash here yesterday on a training exercise.Cause unknown at this time.The company involved is well known for it's safety record and very experienced pilots.No matter how talented or maticulous one is on maintenance,there is always that element we cannot control.Some responders have been very flippant in their comments on safety.Fun first,perception of danger,you name it.The hover aspect given the unknown element of failure,may be great to watch at any scale but I'm beginning to see Randy's point on safety here. It may be a time to rethink the hover on fixed wing models.
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Old 04-24-2010, 10:46 AM   #106
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Re: Maac Mag April Issue

Originally Posted by DaveJohansen View Post
I am not trying to dampen the enjoyment of this hobby at all, I am a workplace safety professional in my business career and have seen many safety zelots on job sites. With flying RC it is no different, we manage our risks and we have our safety code and guidelines to do just that. Stray from those guidelines and we fail to manage the risk and then justifing our actions with statements like I quoted above simply is not acceptable.
I had not given it much thought before but using "Work Place Safety" as a comparison or benchmark against our actions in this hobby does make a lot of sense. Most of what we do from building to flying all can be linked to things we do in the work place. Being aware of the hazards and managing our exposure is paramount in my opinion. In the work place an infraction large or small whether it results in an injury or not is still an infraction and is dealt with in a specific manner. One of the most common is failure to "Lock Out". I have heard all the rationalizations why it was not done and it doesn't wash. There is no justification that allows you because of your experience, expertise or any other reason for that mater to circumvent lock out procedure.

As Dave has said the rules should be applied evenly across the group as a whole then it is not only fair to all but leave’s no room for any speculation or interpretation of what is expected.

The president has asked us that we use a little care in what we post on the internet so that we do not encourage or promote unnecessary risk taking that could possibly reflect on our hobby. If this is what Randy is trying to get across then perhaps he is not the only one who might question the apparent proximity of the model. Not everyone has an understanding of photography to realize there may be a compression factor that makes it appear closer than it is.

In that case I would have to agree with Randy in that it appears to contravene our rules and guidelines and then is it not just the type of situation the president has asked us to refrain from?

Its hard to say when every video I have watched of indoor competitions pilots often fly into a hover right in front of themselves, remove one hand from the transmitter and pluck the foamy from the air.

Like Ronnieo said in a previous post a fellow flyer was struck in the face with a foamy and received one heck of a gash to the nose near the eyes. What would have happened if it had hit the eye? What if that was a spectator/child instead of a club member. Indoor season is over but this has made me rethink these foamies may not be as harmless as everyone seems to think. When flying indoors you are in close proximity to the pilots and the spectators with little or no room to move or get out of the way of a wayward foamy. The new technology makes these more powerful every year. When things go wrong it happens in a small enclosed area so things happen fast leaving little time for reaction. Much less than outside at the field.

All I know for sure is when you see it happen and the result if you have any conscience at all you don't try and deflect the seriousness by making excuses or trying to explain things away. You start to think proactively on how you can reduce the risk even it means going above and beyond what are considered acceptable guidelines. Some of us have discussed this and we will be bringing it up at a future club meeting.

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Old 04-24-2010, 11:13 AM   #107
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Re: Maac Mag April Issue

My 7 year-old daughter has an "Air Hogs" helicopter that she got for Christmas. Weighs next to nothing and is about 8 inches long, but has a 6" rotor that spins pretty fast.

Guess what, she doesn't have a MAAC membership.

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Old 04-24-2010, 03:52 PM   #108

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Re: Maac Mag April Issue

I would absolutely LOVE to hear the average womans comment of that picture ..
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Old 04-24-2010, 07:04 PM   #109
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Re: Maac Mag April Issue

Unbelievable! 11 pages on how/what/where, etc, of a pic that was taken. I wonder how much concern the average person has, say, of walking along a sidewalk in the city, or crossing a street at an intersection... wow, a hovering foamy.. stop the presses.

If folks get all bent out of shape over this, well, you might as well stay home, build a huge metal box, pad it with cushions, crawl in it and stay there. Nothing in life is without risk. What is acceptable to some is definitely (it appears) not to others. Get off the soap box. As far as I am concerned, I consider threads like this "noise pollution".

Geesh, get out and fly already, and stop living behind a keyboard.

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Old 04-24-2010, 09:10 PM   #110
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Re: Maac Mag April Issue

I realize that safety should be on everybody's mind when we are flying our various aircraft.. (or with anything we do) whether it be a 200cc monster or, dare I say it, a foamy. That being said, their is only so much you can practically do to minimize the risk and prevent anybody or anything from getting damaged or injured.

I am surprised that nobody has mentioned the fact that no matter what you are doing....whether it is sleeping in bed or going 200mph down the highway...their is an inherent risk that you must accept if you want to do said activity. With respect to this particular photograph, yeah sure something could happen..the prop could throw a blade...the rx could fail, one of the servos could fail...etc. But you know what....of all the people that were there when that picture was taken...all of them walked into the gym of their own accord and as far as I am concerned, they fully accepted the risk of something happening to them when they walked inside the gym. Their is absolutely nothing wrong with the said photograph. All the power to 'em.
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