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Old 12-10-2011, 10:36 AM   #161
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Re: Carden PRO Built by Lee


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Hey Jim, the 3/8 ply horns are pro bonded into the foam then this is sheeted over with epoxy and then a 1/16 ply plate will be inset on top of that. If this rips out it will rip out the entire aileron with it! Carden and several others have done it this way for a long time.
I will do a detailed write up on the vacuum process but we used 6 inches of Hg with a vacuum relief valve that pops at 7, so it actually fluctuates between 6 and 7 during the process.
Wings are perfectly straight and stiff as a board. The epoxy actually got pulled through the pores of the balsa in places, so we know we got a great bond.
Lee,

Not worried about the ply plates. Just fact that servo or wood srews are ALL that holds all that Al on.
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Old 12-10-2011, 10:50 AM   #162
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Re: Carden PRO Built by Lee

Lee,

How long did the whole proccess take? Doesn't seem much. So it cured overnight and now good to go?

Will the bleading through of ep[oxy be a major problem?

Did you use the WEST System for epoxy? I think that's what i saw at Ted's last time I was there.
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Old 12-10-2011, 10:59 AM   #163
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Re: Carden PRO Built by Lee

Quote:
Originally Posted by scaleguy View Post
Lee,

Not worried about the ply plates. Just fact that servo or wood srews are ALL that holds all that Al on.

Dude.. 6 wood screws into a hardpoint!!... The hardpoint would tear out of the control surface before you'd ever pull 6 wood screws out of plywood or hardwood! And how much force do you think is pulling???... It's only a servo!!

I'd trust 6 wood screws before an 8-32 bolt threaded into a hardpoint!! And I don't think we've ever heard of an 8-32 pulling out.

My Pitts used a single half of a AeroWorks horn with only (3) #3 wood screws... Works like a charm!!

T
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Old 12-10-2011, 11:13 AM   #164
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Re: Carden PRO Built by Lee

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Dude.. 6 wood screws into a hardpoint!!... The hardpoint would tear out of the control surface before you'd ever pull 6 wood screws out of plywood or hardwood! And how much force do you think is pulling???... It's only a servo!!

I'd trust 6 wood screws before an 8-32 bolt threaded into a hardpoint!! And I don't think we've ever heard of an 8-32 pulling out.

My Pitts used a single half of a AeroWorks horn with only (3) #3 wood screws... Works like a charm!!

T
OK I see how it is.... Now that you can't pick on my about 3W any more it's shifting over to control horns? Paranoid you say...... I KNOW there's someone following me!
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Old 12-10-2011, 11:17 AM   #165
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Re: Carden PRO Built by Lee

So I guess something like this would be OK for the Hiperbipe although from photos I've seen they only provide bals blocks for the control horns.

For ailerons and maybe elavators or even rudder.

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Old 12-10-2011, 11:28 AM   #166
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I think that'd work like a charm!!

Worst case, you could borrow my dremel router and inset a ply block into the balsa hardpoint!!

Congrats again on the 3W!!

T
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Old 12-11-2011, 08:26 PM   #167
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Re: Carden PRO Built by Lee

Ok so I'll go into some detail here about bagging wings. Because we are vaccuum bagging with epoxy I didnt have to preglue the sheets together but I did do it to the zig zag on the extensions for easier sanding prior to bagging. The sheets were all joined with tape top side and trimmed to size with a half inch overhang all around. The glue side was sanded to get the sheets all even, vacuumed and tack clothed to get rid of dust. This was then taped width wise to hold the sheets together and the skin flipped over. The top side was stripped of tape and sanded down to 400 grit. I then vacuumed and dust ragged the sheets and did a full taping to cover all seams for later.
Here is Ted holding one of the skins which we final trimmed to within 1/8 inch of the core edges.
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Old 12-11-2011, 08:35 PM   #168
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Re: Carden PRO Built by Lee

The skins were taped to the table all around (just enough to hold them, about 1/16 inch) and West systems epoxy 205 and 105 hardener was mixed. Two ounces of epoxy per skin exactly was scraped over and over until all surfaces were even and wet right to the taped edges. Went fast with two people! So four ounces per wing panel in total! Some use 3 1/2 but I wanted good penetration to all the seams. This equates to seven pumps on the west systems pumps if you use that.
The cores were vacuumed and tack clothed prior and Ted made a protective cover using a forstner bit to protect the phenolic on the cores which you can see on the end of one of the pics.
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Old 12-11-2011, 08:43 PM   #169
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Re: Carden PRO Built by Lee

Carden recommends top side down for all sheeting so the top shuck was 1st , then a layer of wax paper, then the top skin, then the core and we then placed the bottom shuck on and flipped this over for a trick that Ted learned from a bad experience..... We PIN the shuck to the core on the ends through the sheeting and embed the pin head slightly into the foam. Just four or five to hold the core and skin from shifting!
We then flip over again, remove the bottom shuck, placed the second skin on and wax paper then the bottom shuck which is also pinned in place.
Go over this a few times it starts to make sense.
Ted on his 1st bagging thought he could shift things around once in the bag but things moved and he ruined a wing panel which cost him dearly! Nothing like experience!
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Old 12-11-2011, 08:52 PM   #170
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Re: Carden PRO Built by Lee

On top of the panel we placed cotton batten (which completely covered the bottom of the core), and a strip right to the vaccuum fitting. The panel is now placed in the vaccuum bag which is about 8-12 inches longer than the core all around. The whole mess is placed on a granite table that is dead flat and we place some socks filled with lead shot to hold things in place while we applied vaccuum. I took care to make sure there were no wrinkles underneath. Ted uses about 6 inches of Hg pressure with a pressure relief of seven so the pump cycles between these two values. Once sucked down the core becomes a vaccuum sealed block of rock hard foam! The weight can be removed and the wing placed anywhere to work on the second one. Cool
The first wing took over an hour to do, but the second only 30 minutes or so once I knew the process and could help!
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