[Guest]

Originally Posted by Fuzzydog

seems I might have struck a nerve with you for some reason. First I'll address my error - I stated non-volatile and I guess you are right - it is volatile in a flammable sense. I was thinking about volatile as in eating plastics - which it does not do.
The OP asked for opinions/experience and that is what I shared. I have used the tremclad (extensively and repeatedly)and it fills imperfections very nicely, which to me equates as a high fill primer. Maybe not up to your expectations but that does not make my experience 'nonsense'. There are ways to disagree with people without being disrespectful.

I am inferring from your user name that you are involved in the paint/graphics industry and as such probably have extensive knowledge that I, the OP, and others on this forum can benefit from. Just because the lower end primer does not meet your criteria for use does not make it worthless to everyone else.

Fair enough, I made my statement about it being nonsense based on your statement of it being non volatile. Volatile refers to it's ability to burn and/or explode and seeing it being called non volatile alerted me to a potential major safety issue. I apologize for misunderstanding your statement.

As for the rest of post, if you have the opportunity to use a proper high build primer, you will find that the rattle can primer is garbage. It has it's uses, but on an RC model (particularly one that will use nitro fuel) it is useless. There is no fuel proofing with it, and adhesion for masking will be poor. With a single stage paint you also run a high risk of reaction with other paints. At $7 a can, it would be cheaper for Sammy to use the Omni primer. I would venture a guess that it would take him at LEAST 40 cans to do any considerable amount of film build with the tremclad product.

As for high build primers and their uses, they will not fill all imperfections. They don't fill pinholes worth a darn simply because like all paint, they will simply bridge over the pinhole and then as they cure and shrink they leave the pinhole exposed if they even bridge it at all . High build primer can be used however by hand over pinholes and massaged into the holes, then sanded out.
While it is true that it will fill low spots, it also raises high spots which means you are going to have to block out a ton of primer, better to get it as smooth as possible before priming. It does fill sanding scratches, and minor minor imperfections, but you have to remember when you spray anything, if the film build is 4 mil over a low spot, it's also 4mil over a high spot, so you are simply painting over your peaks and valleys. Only after sanding will it level. The reason it is "high build" (not high fill) is because it allows the film thickness to "build" to a point that you can sand it flat without sanding through. However, that film build is nowhere near thick enough to hide anything large, if you put the primer on to thick, it add's weight and can lead to performance problems with the primer itself.

[Cross Check]

Hi Struts1,

Your arms are tired of sanding? Take a Break !

I've been there and got the T-Shirt of wanting to see a project in primer paint... And wished in the end, I had more patience...

NOW, is the time to take that extra effort to get it 'as flawless as possible', before shooting the primer...

(Sanding/Prep is 90% of any paint job...)

You have allot of great advice, in the previous posts...

I'll suggest another option:

-talk to any small 'body shops' in your area. They will have a decent spray booth and more than likely a 'good' primer in stock. (just ask)
-have the parts cleaned/masked/on stands to put in the booth.
-arrange a drop off/pickup time with them, that is easy for them.
-pay cash. ( I'm guessing $50/75 bucks for your project?)
-I can guarantee it will be cheaper than buying the materials and doing it yourself...
-be willing to give them photos of the project. You will get painters drooling when they can spray the final coats on a cool project...

Hope this helps.

I'm looking forward to seeing the 'Connie' fly !

Take care,
Have fun,
Dave'crosscheck'Fallowfield
Maac 6437
Unabashed Combat Team

[williame3590]

Originally Posted by Struts1

Where r u going, where is it being held?

Caledonia,On 7 till 9 just south of Hamilton.

Bill

[williame3590]

Here is the balsa cowl and fibreglass wheel pant Struts. The pants actually require a fair amount of bondo and putty because of the raised seem that runs down the middle.
This is all painted with ICI (Glidden) good old fashioned rattle cans. Lots of wet sanding between coats.
I can get large areas like wings to come out the same, just a little tougher.
ICI also has a high build primer in a rattle can which I used on these. It will fill a weave in about three coats. These are all oil based products.

Bill

[chuebner]

I did autobody for 27 years as my main profession and LGM is right on track about Hi Solids (HS)primers. They will fill and work great on minor imperfections such as sand scratches, very light stone chipping, very shallow indents and even pinholes if the pinholes are flooded with primer by heavy spray app. or by hand and the primer allowed to flow into the pinholes before it skins over and bridges the pinhole.

I also agree that the substrate should smoothed out as much as possible by using light weight fillers 2 part polyester putties. They do a much nicer and cheaper job of filling and correcting surface imperfections. Primers are just too dang expensive to waste trying to make them do the job that was meant for fillers and putties.

I remember when 2 part urethane primers first came on the market....peeps thought this was the answer for correcting shoddy body work and were applying this stuff willy nilly with continuous coats of 6, 8, 10 coats and then blocking it off. It appeared to work, for a while, then about a month after the cars were painted, massive sand scatch sinking was appearing because guys were only finishing their filler with like 40 grit sandpaper and was expecting the HS primers to take care of the rest.

HS primers are the very best to use if used correctly. 2-3 coats max with proper flash times between coats. Surface, filler prep should be done in nothing courser than 150-180 grit in my opinion...even finer for an even better finish.

I have used HS primers from many differant manufacturers over the years.....Sikkens, PPG, RM Glasurit, Evercoat, etc etc, but the ones I always went back too were the DuPont brand of HS primers...great filling, very easy sanding and excellant topcoat holdout.....They worked great for me, your mileage may vary.

Hey LGM....did you ever use Evercoat Feather Fill......it would fill door gaps but was as hard as concrete to sand.

[Orion1971]

Hey Sammy,
I agree with staying away from rattle can primers. They may be ok for doing small spots but not really up to what you want. Just by nature they have way too much reducer just to get it to spray. Because of the amount of reducer they take a long time to fully cure. You can sand it glass smooth and a month later you will start to see some of the sanding marks show up you used the primer to fill.
I would also agree with going to a local body shop and see about getting the connie sprayed. They have everything on hand as far as material and equipment to do what you want and do it quick. Chances are they can just shoot your stuff while they are doing a few parts for themselves. That also equates to less cost and no waste to you. You would probably have to purchase a larger amount than you will use right away and that stuff doesn't live forever in the can.
Good luck with it.
Kev

[Guest]

One major warning regarding body shops though, you MUST tell them that weight is CRITICAL, make it out to be even more critical than it is. These are automotive painters, they spray paint to cover heavy and flow out, weight is no issue on a car. On an airplane as large as your connie a painter who doesn't realize that weight is an issue could EASILY add 4 or 5 pounds in a high build primer alone! Then you are stuck with the task of sanding most of it off. They do not think in terms of weight at all. Clear coats and base coats can add lots of weight too if they aren't thinking about it. The film build on a car paint job is not desireable on an RC model. Between primer and paint, on a model this big, it would be easy to add 10lbs to the model. Don't forget this is a HUGE airplane, weight will add up very quickly.

[Struts1]

Thanks guys for great suggestions on this topic, i never intended to use rattle can on this project anyways, that's why i asked about it on here. I'll go over the airplane and will sand all the areas that still needed to smoothed out by sanding and then will arrange with local auto body shop to spray it with high fill primer and paint upper half of fuselage and all 3 fins white. Rest of the lower fuselage, wings and stabilizer will be covered in aluminum foil tape and few compound curve areas in Flite metal.

Yes i will tell autobody shop painted to make sure not to spray heavy cotes as weight is an critical issue here. Cars r Cars but planes are different ball game when it comes to painting them.

[ccaamm1]

Sammy, just a thought. But wouldnt someone who specializes in full size aircraft refinishing be worth checking into? As stated, weight can be an issue with primer and paint applications. I'm sure the people that refinish aircraft may have a better understanding of the concern with weight build up than an autobody shop would.

Might be worth checking into.

[Flypaper]

Used to do full sized aircraft but this was 50 yrs ago. I imagine they've updated since then For what it's worth, for filler, we mixed nitrate dope and aluminum powder at 50/50 ratio in a 4 gallon spray tank which sat on the floor and was pressurized for spraying. After water sanding for days, you had no fingerprint whorls left on your fingers. Smooth as a baby's butt.