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Old 10-09-2005, 01:01 AM   #21
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Mac....don't get me wrong..I wasn't slamming your event for the lack of trophies for the lower was at several events...

Some people get a little jaded with a full trophy shelf...but winning the first few trophies is really special to people just getting into the racing side of the hobby...

My point was more that potential racers need to feel that there are attainable and worthwhile goals even if they aren't realistically going to have a shot at the top spot overall...Generators are just over the top!

Another thing that helps is when people at the tracks are friendly and helpful to spectators...especially parents and kids...they need to see what a great atmosphere there can be at the's something that parents and kids can do's what originally got me started in the hobby over 20 years ago...

I think it's hard for a track to operate and be financially viable unless it is either hosted by a hobby shop or has land donated...even then...there is still the time required to man the track, maintain it, etc....

The tracks can be run either as a club or as a business, a club would require membership fees and require members to assist in the maintaining and operating of the track...with the business model track, the onus falls onthe track operator...unfortunately there isn't as much profit in this hobby as many people may think...

As far as Grandmaster G's statement that 1 or 2 people can maintain a track with the proper equipment....where will the time for these 1 or 2 people to maintain the track come from...or the $$$$ for the proper equipment....

There is a TONNE of work that goes into setting up a track and keeping it in good condition...just go to any offroad event and watch the volunteers and track crew in between rounds of qualifying...heck..even in between heats.....and that's just to keep a track in decent shape that has already been prepared...

Also...go easy on Mac for the limited schedule this season at I understand it there was a more expanded schedule planned, but it was put on hold when he suffered a serious injury...

After attending the race and watching Dave hobbling around on his wounded ankle (silly move gotta get that healed up properly) and witnessing the class he conducted himself with and the quality of the facilities...I will definitely try to be there next year (I can only try...not the race falls on my anniversary weekend )
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Old 10-09-2005, 07:34 AM   #22
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Everyone has a different point of view.

To clarify the equipment comment

why would someone open a track without proper equipment??

with equipment...YES...2 guys could maintain a track

I know 1 guy who maintains his private track with hands and a shovel by himself

I own a LOADER and 2 acres in Bolton....but Unfortunatly I am putting up a building for my business rather than an RC Track

with this machine alone or a BOBCAT...1-2 persons can maintain a track....hardworking and physically able people of course

MACS Track can easily be maintained by 2 persons and volunteers on race weekends.....I know...I have seen it

why is it I have workers that hand dig trenches 50 linear feet long and 4.5 feet deep in less than a day???...2 workers at that??

A track in its building stages is hard.....once its built maitenence is easy

Keep it real

As for racing against the PROS...bring it.....but I still say the NEWBIE is not interested..........

and for that matter why would Parent or Henry get satisfaction out of waxing the new guy with his ULTRA Comp

The numbers in Ontario say keep all racers together
If the numbers were bigger....classes would need to be seperated

I am starting to wonder if racing is an EGO thing........I witnessed the SPRUCEWOOD....their were some racers who had no business being on the same track has Henry or Parent........let them improve in a sportsman class before bumping them up...

let some guy win a Generator in the Sportsman A-Main

Anyways The Grandmaster has no interest in arguing with anyone.....this is a discussion personal attacks are intended.......MAC has a wicked track.........2006 looks great......the hobby is slowly evolving and with the help of SPRUCEWOOD, OFFROADRC.CA and its MEMBERS the hobby seems to have a bright future in the G.T.A and surrounding areas
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Old 10-09-2005, 09:04 AM   #23
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One thing to keep in mind is that regardless of how much work a track is, the more people that help and support this track the more often the owner will want to have it open.

Many people said they would like to see a track with this or that obstacle (step up, bigger jumps etc) but when the call went out for help to re-design the track no one shows. As a track owner it is very discouraging and makes you wonder if it is worth bothering, after all I am sure my family would have prefered me around yesterday rather than being at the track all day. Lets hope this discussion thread can help people see both sides of a situation and learn from it. I agree with Grandmaster G that it is not for attacking but for constructive critisism. A couple people suggested to me that if they could walk behind the driverstand it would give less congestion in front of it. Great idea, 2 days after the race I cut it all down, and moved the power post for more access. These are the types of things that will make next year better. At FTR having drivers qualify in a 1-10 skill level, this really helped match drivers a little closer in ability and it worked really well.

I welcome all the feedback and look forward to what should be the best summer of off road rc that we have ever witnessed in the Great Lakes area!!
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Old 10-09-2005, 10:24 AM   #24
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ive had a track it takes more than 1 or 2 people to maintain it i had shovels a wheelbarrow and is needed whether you got a friggen got to run with the better guys to get better thats why there are lower mains you sit where you sit intimidation....i love to see the new guy get better and they only get better with track time,experiance and observation how do them guys do that...well find far as racers having no buisiness on the track the same time dave or joe are running thats absurd you deal with whats dealt if you cant get around someone who is unsure of themselves or the track YOU (the good driver) got more than just that problem on a track thats a minute long if a guy cant find a spot to pass we got do we determine a sportsman class anyway?? ahh keep everything the same my opinion....mac you rock...

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Old 10-09-2005, 10:34 AM   #25
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I have to agree and disagree with the weekend warrior vs the sponsored driver.....yes it isnt really fair becasue people like me who dont regularily race and dont have backing of a sponsor are gonna get blown away by sponsored drivers. Having said that running against faster pdrivers can make u faster and gives you something to strive for, having said that a sportsman class is a great idea cause it works to leveling the playing field a little. I have recently been reading through some stuff from the guys in the west coast and I really like their ideas about this "Sportsman Class". Either way racing is racing and the competition of wanting to be better is what drives us to come out. Havinga sponsored driver run you over periodocally can be a motivator not to make mistakes.

As far as track stuff goes, getting people to come out and help has been a struggle for Mac all the way along. I'm sure that he is not the only track owner that has had this problem either. However Thanksgiving weekend is not the best time to schedule a work session and realistically to expect people to come out is a little much, if I tried to get awayto the track with family here for dinner my wife would rip out my spleen and then beat me to death with my buggy.

I agree with the Grandmaster when saying that a regular schedule at a track would go a long way to improving attendance at racing. Mac's race went from a showing of 20 or 30 to 96 when he ran regularily one year, granted this site was part of that because getting the word out there is everything but having the venue and allowing people to get over some anamosity about racing by getting some laps in goes a long way. Remember that really bad Costner movie "if you build it they will come"

I'm sure peoples A.D.D is kicking in now so I will conclude but I think that the bigger the racing scene gets the better it will be for everyone, racer, basher and hobbyshop alike!
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Old 10-09-2005, 11:05 AM   #26
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[QUOTE=endler]as far as racers having no buisiness on the track the same time dave or joe are running thats absurd

More than likely it will stay the same because of numbers

I agree 100% that driving with better drivers would make one better....but.....most sports and Real racing have different levels.....To become a Pro anything..their are are not drafted in Pro sports and thrown to the wolves unless they are extra-special....most serve time in the minors or practice rosters or even mid-atlantic series as opposed to Champ Car....

obviously RC is nowhere near this size, but remember RC comes in ALL ages........again why should some 13 yr old newbie out with his dad for the first time run a race against a Parent or Henry...with his OFNA Comp nonethe less......we obviously cannot seperate classes based on age due to numbers and RC is basically non-biased when it comes to age...The Top drivers come in ALL ages......

what we can do is...instead of having a A,B.C.D.E.F main

we can have Regular Class A,B,C mains
sportsmen A,B.C mains

their would be no way to determine someones ability....but...the PROS would not be allowed to race in sportsmen.

than people at their own discretion have an option as to what class to enter.......REMEMBER this isnt about EXISTING RACERS its about ATTRACTING more people to the race scene.....the EXISTING RACERS who are competing at at least a "C'Main level could be in the REG. Class
Those who are regularily in the D,E,F mains could race in Sportsmen instead....once they sart doing well in Sportsmen than they move up....but they have to win at least 1 Sportsmen level Race

Obviously I have not thouroughly sat down and figured out minor kinks but the issue is ATTRACTING more to racing...those who have not raced before

why throw them to the wolves......their is nothing to be Embarrassed about in Sportsmen Class...........

This Hobby is about having Fun one is making $$$ winning these races.........Obviously the current standard needs work or the question would not be raised how to attract more people to our hobbie/racing
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Old 10-09-2005, 11:13 AM   #27
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The Fozy agrees
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Old 10-09-2005, 01:22 PM   #28
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The Spond thinks there has been a whole lot of typing in this thread today.. WOW..

Lots of good ideas, and Im sure that we all can see both sides of all the arguments. however we know that each track is different, everyone has a life.. and we all have ideas as to how things should work and run.

Next year we may have two tracks.. and one may effectively be a club.. maybe both.. that is really cool indeed...

I like the idea of a sportsman class, however.. what about a race with only 25-30 buggy guys.. and 15 trucks.. Like Grandmaster says .. the numbers right now prevent that.

I think at a "club" event that would work.. but we have no clubs "YET" hehhe.. sorry.. But at a full blown race it might be best to have no classes like that... and save it for theweekly series like Mac wants next year.. that is where they separate.. the race weekend should be one class.. and the mains sort the skill levelss.. that is what they are for...

There is alot of positive in this thread for a change.. everyone is going forward.. and discussing vs bashing.. this is good.. keep it going forward and positive..
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Old 10-09-2005, 01:56 PM   #29
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well... here's my take... the ideas of haveing a different class for beginners is nice but i think grouping the racers according to their ability (like at FTR last week) is the best... this will work regardless of the number of people at the race... as far as prizes and stuff i don't think that's the problem because, i don't know about all you other guys but i don't go to a race to win a tropy or a generator anything... i just wanna go and run... i think the problem of attracting more racers will best be solved by time... remember this was the first year for the glorcs... take the Grandmaster for example... he wasn't sure he was into the racing thing but after a season of hearing/reading about it he's decided he's gonna join next year... i think this will continue to happen as the years go on... the best thing we can do to ensure the success of rc racing's future in our area is to keep doing what we did this year...
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Old 10-09-2005, 08:02 PM   #30
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SS Mardona, As you do not race for trophies or Geni's you probably want to donate the geni back to me to use as a raffle next year - Ha Ha

Fozzy, there is no question this weekend was a bad weekend, however with racing at FTR last weekend, Niagra next weekend and a heavy FROST last night I was running out of weekends to get the new track completed before the ground froze up. My hope was that some people like myself celebrate only on Monday. It is not a big deal as I had not finished moving all the dirt anyway.

I am really happy with how my track is coming. It is everything that I wanted to have ready for my last race but was not possible. I can't wait till you guys try out the track. It is about 30 feet wider, 20 feet deeper, much better do able jumps, longer pit lane. I have bought all new special tubing. It is solid and should not break or crumple. It should last for years. The new stuff I put down before the race was trashed after just the one race. There are no more blind spots and all the berms are twice as high. I have put 30 gallons of diesel through the skid steer bringing more dirt onto the track. Spond will have to tell you all about it as he has booked the track to test two new RC vehicles in the next couple of weeks. The fastest lap times at the race were 53 - 54 seconds so my goal was to get the fastest lap time just over a minute. I think I have accomplished that!!
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