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Old 03-11-2016, 11:09 AM   #161
Dutkoski
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Re: Re-starting Avro Arrow build


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It appears the new gelcoat has cured properly. I did apply the new gelcoat the other day, but my first attempt did not work out, the gelcoat cured unevenly as I had accidentally applied it in too thin a coat in some areas, so it pulled. So after cleaning up the plug a third time 😁
I poured the gelcoat on this time and brushed it to a fairly even thickness, then as soon as it began to set up, I applied a second coat. This morning, the results look very good, quite happy with it. So, today, I will laminate the surface veil and the two layers of matting. Tomorrow, the cross bracing. Tomorrow night, if all goes well, I'll pop the mould open.
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Old 03-11-2016, 11:18 AM   #162
artchristic2
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Re: Re-starting Avro Arrow build

Hi John;

I too do not want to have them out of low cost.
Giving this gear project to a trade school for projet.
I`ll see what they come up with.
No cost to me since this is volenteer project work.
I`ll keep you informed if you like and everyone else.

Nice to see that you have made quite a defeat with just Drawings to work from.
Very impressed with your work.
Can`t wait to see the finished project.
Your the first to bring back the Avro Arrow spirit.
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Old 03-11-2016, 11:30 AM   #163
Dutkoski
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Re: Re-starting Avro Arrow build

This one is for Larry, if you are still in the design stage for your twin 70 mm, do not build it at 1/16 th scale, even at that size, it will be very cramped inside. I have a fully composite kit that is in that scale but powered by a single 90 mm and it just fits top and bottom. But at that scale, no landing gear. I also have two foam versions in kits, one is a pusher prop design and it sounds like a Stryker on steroids, goes literally straight up until you command it to level out. Also, the second version is twin 50 mm EDF. I looked at 70 mm but with the foam thickness of only 1/2 " there really isn't much clearance for one, and no side clearance for two to be mounted on rails.

So, before finalizing the size, figure out the clearances. I would most definitely do it out of foam though. Much faster and just as scale in the end.

This is the fully composite version, 90 mm
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Old 03-11-2016, 11:31 AM   #164
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Re: Re-starting Avro Arrow build

The pusher prop version
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Old 03-11-2016, 11:35 AM   #165
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Re: Re-starting Avro Arrow build

And the twin 50 mm EDF version. The foam models fly "nicer" than the fiberglass version, but the fiberglass model is way faster. They are all bungee launch designs.
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Old 03-12-2016, 12:41 PM   #166
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Re: Re-starting Avro Arrow build

Got everything set up this morning and by 8:00 a.m., I'm slopping the resin. Pictures show me applying the first layer of matting which is called surface veil. It's a very fine matting and important, you must get all the airbubbles out or the gelcoat finish will be like the shell of an egg. Not the end of the world, but you will need to repair it from inside the mould which is a pain if its on a panel line or some other detail. The metal roller is splined and sliced so there are dozens of pins that help the air bubbles escape as you lightly roll it over the surface. It is a must have tool when making moulds.
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Old 03-12-2016, 06:25 PM   #167
larry baraniuk
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Re: Re-starting Avro Arrow build

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dutkoski View Post
This one is for Larry, if you are still in the design stage for your twin 70 mm, do not build it at 1/16 th scale, even at that size, it will be very cramped inside. I have a fully composite kit that is in that scale but powered by a single 90 mm and it just fits top and bottom. But at that scale, no landing gear. I also have two foam versions in kits, one is a pusher prop design and it sounds like a Stryker on steroids, goes literally straight up until you command it to level out. Also, the second version is twin 50 mm EDF. I looked at 70 mm but with the foam thickness of only 1/2 " there really isn't much clearance for one, and no side clearance for two to be mounted on rails.

So, before finalizing the size, figure out the clearances. I would most definitely do it out of foam though. Much faster and just as scale in the end.

This is the fully composite version, 90 mm
Actually I was planning on going with 1/16th scale with the twin 70 mm EDF version.
Here are some pictures of my 2nd twin 50 mm edf build that I didn't finish because I realized that I needed more power than what 50 mm edfs can put out.


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Old 03-12-2016, 07:18 PM   #168
Dutkoski
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Re: Re-starting Avro Arrow build

Go bigger, with the power the newer 70 mm fans produce you can get away with bigger, just keep the model as light as possible. I see your model is basically solid foam, you get alot of extra weight doing it that way. What are you using as a finish, is it epoxy?

I don't have the pictures on my IPad but in the electric jet forum, I posted lots showing the structure of my Arrow. Check it out if you havent already. The airframe is very light and strong.

Once I get home, I'm going to try and revamp my foam Arrow for a twin 64 mm or twin 70 mm. The wall thickness will get a lot thinner so the hot wire templates will need to be redone. Also, the wing and the vertical fin will be more scale instead of being just a flat sheet sanded to shape. Going to stay with the 1/16th scale because I have all the vacuform moulds already done.

Figure on doing a very limited run on the kits. Will pay for some of my costs on the turbine Arrow.

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Old 03-12-2016, 08:33 PM   #169
larry baraniuk
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Re: Re-starting Avro Arrow build

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dutkoski View Post
Go bigger, with the power the newer 70 mm fans produce you can get away with bigger, just keep the model as light as possible. I see your model is basically solid foam, you get alot of extra weight doing it that way. What are you using as a finish, is it epoxy?

I don't have the pictures on my IPad but in the electric jet forum, I posted lots showing the structure of my Arrow. Check it out if you havent already. The airframe is very light and strong.

Once I get home, I'm going to try and revamp my foam Arrow for a twin 64 mm or twin 70 mm. The wall thickness will get a lot thinner so the hot wire templates will need to be redone. Also, the wing and the vertical fin will be more scale instead of being just a flat sheet sanded to shape. Going to stay with the 1/16th scale because I have all the vacuform moulds already done.

Figure on doing a very limited run on the kits. Will pay for some of my costs on the turbine Arrow.
I just found my twin 70 mm edf former print outs and they are 1/14th scale
I use to use Z poxy but switched to Aeropoxy. I'll check into your posts and on the electric jet forum. Thanks again !
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Old 03-13-2016, 10:30 PM   #170
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Re: Re-starting Avro Arrow build

After several set backs, I finally got the moukd made, so tomorrow will be like Christmas, opening it up. Might need my nieghbour and brother in law for some extra strength in getting it off the plug.

Only took 7 gallons of resin........
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