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Old 11-03-2003, 07:39 PM   #21
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Old 11-04-2003, 08:19 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by planecrazy
Rivets!!!! AAaaarrrrgggggg!!!
Some inspiration; http://strictlyscale.com/doitright.htm

and some information; http://strictlyscale.com/doc2.htm
MAAC# 12719
Si fractum non sit, noli id reficere - (If it ain't broke, don't fix it).
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Old 11-04-2003, 09:01 AM   #23
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panel lines and rivets


You're doing a great job on the Tiffy! don't let panel lines and rivets intimidate you! For all the time you have spent so far it would be ashame not to take a few extra evenings for these.

Couple suggestions (sorry if most are too basic) that may help:

First, get a 3-view dwg that is comparable to the level of detail you wish to add. The work out the 'factor' to multiply the details on the 3-view by to reach the size of your model. I usually work in mm as it's easier...and i'm a Canadian! Then for quick reference in excel I like to make a sheet with numbers listed from 1 - 50 in increments of 1, and then up to about 200 in increments of 5. Make these values equal to what ever my factor is. Simply this is a quick reference so as i measure my 3-view i don't have to punch it into a calculator each time. OK, Let's get started...

Panel lines

Once your model is smooth and primed (up to about the last shot of primer you want to add), this is when you start with the panel lines. Using a soft (draws a visible line with little pressure reqd) pencil draw the location for all your panel lines. Geesh, what a daunting task right? You could measure every line off your 3-view, calculate the factor, then draw the line on the model....but you could also kick a bucket full of frozen water and feel just as impressed with your self.

Transfering from the 3-view to the Model

There are a couple ways to do this easily, and everyone seems to have their own. First, you could copy your 3-view onto a clear sheet and using and overhead projector project your line locations on your model. Not a very accurate method, but an easy one. Again, this goes back to your level of detail interes. Another way is to take your 3-veiw to Kinkos and enlarge it to the size of your model, and then use this laid over the model to mark the locations.

What I have found that works well for me is to use masking tape. While more time consuming as the above methods, i find it's more accurate. On the wing and tail surfaces I run a piece of masking tape out along the span and mark on it all the spacing i need. then i transfer these locations to the model. carefully peel off the tape and move it to the opposite panel and again transfer these marks. If your model has a similar pattern on the other side you can use this piece of tape to mark the underside spacing as well. Hence you have measured once and done all 4 surfaces. The fuse poses a new challenge. First I do all the vertical lines (the ones perpendicular to the thrust line). To do this I use my masking tape again laid down the thrust line, and mark the location of all the vertical lines. You only need to do this on one side so you can skip the tape all together if you like. Then stand the fuse on it's nose. it needs to stand perfectly strait up and down. This may require a shim tack glued to the nose to compensate for any thrust angles etc. Then i use a sharpie marker fixed in a holder that adjusts up and down a stick or dowel with a firm base. aligning my sharpie on the rod at the height of each check mark we made earlier, run it around the model, drawing a 'ring' of constant height. sometimes having a helper to steady the model is usefull. After this is done, carry on laying out your horizontal lines as you see fit.

Panel lines

Once all our lines are drawn, take a break and view the model. Starting to look more like a real plane already! Ok, using Chart Pak or equal drafting tape lay down along your pencil lines. I find 1/64th inch wide the best for this. You don't want the tape too wide or it will look like your plane is falling apart at the seems! Once this is done dust your model with primer, concentrating a couple passes over the tape only. If you were satisfied earlier with the primed surface you only need add primer over the tape. Once dry peel off the tape to reveal your panel line. Using a piece of 600 grit w/d sand paper dry or a scotch brite pad, wipe down the entire model making the primed surface smooth. This also removes any sharp edges left where the panel lines are.

Hatches and surface details

I have found aluminum smooth HVAC tape found in your local hardware store perfect for raised hatches or panels. I won't go into hinges and other raised surface details here as most people are proably already asleep by this point!...but i can if interested.

Flush Rivets

Next lay out in a similar fashion as you did before. I usually just mark the locations of rivets in the middle of the panels and not along the edges as i use the panel line as my guide. Using various sizes of brass tubing in the end of a pencil type soldering iron i then 'burn' in an indentation of the rivet. At this point it may be helpful to have a practice piece to experiment with to get the hang of it. You'll find that you only need to tap the surface to get the slight indentation you want. A piece of masking tape again offers a good aid to keep you going in a striaght line and to keep your spacing consistant. One thing to keep in mind is that there must be a rivet at the interestion of rivet lines to look right. This is why it is very difficult to achieve a good result with 'pre-printed' rivet sheets or tape. Once you have finished burning in your flush rivets take your scotch brite pad, or 600 grit paper and wipe over the model to remove any sharp edges. just about every rivet will have them if you run your finger over them lightly. Lastly, i find i concentrate quite a bit at this step so i only do it in 20 minute increments....for sanity purposes!

Raised Rivets

You may also encounter raised rivets on your model. To achieve these, again lay on the location with your soft lead pencil. I like to draw all the lines at this point. This is because I like to try and do it in one sitting. You can split it up but it means you have to clean out the appllicator each time you stop, which really isn't a big deal and really depends on how you feel and the number or rivets required. The applicator i use comes from you local craft store, most likely in with the needle work section. Mine is made by A-West but i'm sure there are others out there. Basically it's a small squeezable bottle with a very small needle on it. Mine is size 16, the smallest they offer, and has an ID of .008". I thin down some titebond glue with water until it comes out nicly from the needle. Then basically you drop little drops of glue along your line you drew. Try not to touch the tip of the applicator to the model as it will 'flatten' your rivet out to look like an fried egg instead of a rivet. If you get off track just wipe the glue away with a rag and start again. For larger fasteners just apply a large drop of glue. The glue dries clear. When finished the bottle is cleaned out using hot water. A-west also include a little piece of wire with the applicator to assist in cleaning the needle.

A note about painting color

That's basically it in a nutshell from my experience with panel lines and rivets. Actually we didn't discuss raised panels yet......
Anyways, I just wanted to make a comment about the next step, painting. Keep in mind when you are painting that the only purpose of the paint is to add color. It is not intended to fill imperfections etc. Only 'dust' on enough paint to get the color you desire, that's it!

I can certainly go into more detail if you wish or answer any questions you may have on any of this. To me its the most rewarding step in the end. To make it enjoyable don't spend an entire saturday doing it...break it up over a few evenings. To do all the panel lines and rivets on my 95" Ziroli Hellcat took 5 evenings. I think 5 evenings on a model that took 7 months to build and finish is a no-brainer! got to do it!

Hope some of this helps! We can get into weathering etc as you see fit down the road!
Sean McHale
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Old 11-04-2003, 09:09 AM   #24
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I better print that, my poor little wallnut brain can't handle all that at once.

Thanks for all the info, I know what your saying. i've been at this project for close to 8 years (lots of long interuptions, apprenticeship, buying a house, getting married, having a son.......you know, life) I can't half a** it now. Just keep sayin' to myself, I think I can, I think I can.

Chris Rebidoux
Gravity works. I've tested it......often!!!
Building: Jerry Bates 1/4 Chipmunk
Vancouver Vanguard 1/6 Fairey Firefly
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Old 11-04-2003, 11:24 AM   #25
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A WALNUT heck I'm thinking Peanut
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Old 11-04-2003, 05:42 PM   #26
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If ya can't say "nuttin'" nice, then don't say "nuttin'" at all.

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Old 11-04-2003, 05:59 PM   #27
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Youse guys are ALL nuts! : :P

Ron Mattiuz

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"Flying an airplane is just like riding a bike...except it's harder to put cards in the spokes"
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