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Old 06-15-2016, 10:30 PM   #111
Mike Sebastien
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Re: Top Flite Cessna 182


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Do you know for a fact you build light or is it a perception. The only way to know that is to know the weight.

I once scratch built a 35% ultimate and I tried my best to build it as light as possible. The only way I knew if I achieved that goal was to weight it. It came in at 22lbs which is very light for a 35% biplane with a DA100. Amazing flying airplane.

I also built a 40% Carden Extra 260 and my goal was to build it to get it under 30lbs. I went to great lengths to build it light and I did achieve my goal. It weighs 29.5 lbs, goal achieved.

Also when I check the C of G I use the 3 weight scale method and I know my C of G to 1/16 in tolerance. This also gives me my total weight
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Old 06-16-2016, 01:35 AM   #112
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Re: Top Flite Cessna 182

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Originally Posted by mwavesdave View Post
So Len, as you asked about weight, we might have to get a scale and check it out. In spite of having 3 batteries in the nose, receiver, landing lights, and nav lights, a saito 100 up front, I was very tail heavy at the 4 inch recommended CG. It's funny that TF states 4"for the kit, but 4 5/16" for the ARF! Anyways, took 15 ounces of weight to get it bang on the 4 inch mark, nose feels pretty heavy to me, and the tail can be pushed down to about 2 inches off the deck before it wants to keep going down on it's own. I have a sneaking feeling that the plane will feel and fly nose heavy on the maiden. I've heard as well that the elevators are very sensitive, so high rates is the recommended 3/4 in throw, medium I set for 60%, and 40% for low. Thinking I'll be doing a few high speed taxi runs prior to first liftoff.
I question the ARF balancing numbers and would go with the kit version numbers. I still think that weighing the model to see just where you are at is a wiser move as you did add a lot of extra detailing plus a great finish with a larger motor than the original design. Then there is the added 15 oz up front to balance. If I Remember correctly I went with the minimum throws and mine flies fine. I almost always go mid-point in the CG numbers and pretty much am happy with that.
As for sensitive elevators , I think they are spot on but then statements like that are the writers experience . I also did the lateral balance and with minimum throws and a little power I can mush along with full up elevator.

I initially added around 12 oz behind the firewall but dropped that to 4 oz inside the cowl up near the front
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Old 06-16-2016, 06:27 AM   #113
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Re: Top Flite Cessna 182

Other than the LED strobe light on the tail, there's no extra anything aft of the CG. The finish was 1/2oz cloth, with only one coat of resin, Leeann's attention to detail meant there was virtually no filling required, and she used CA throughout except for epoxy at the tail/fuse join. Everything extra, per say, was forward of the CG. The two extra battery packs are square NiMH packs, immediately behind the firewall. The heavier ARF glass cowl, and nose wheel are well forward, the mains being only slightly aft. The kit calls for a 91 -1.20 four stroke, so the Saito 100 isn't even remotely overkill.

The aircraft doesn't feel heavy, I'm just surprised at the amount of weight needed to get it balanced. In retrospect, I could have checked it much earlier, and moved some items into the large cowl area, to minimize the weights installed. I'll weigh the aircraft though, if the wing loading is in the appropriate range, and it flies like a Cessna 182 (I've got a lot of hours on the real deal), then everything will stay as is. For us, it's all about flying a scale aircraft in a scale manner.

While Leeann built the aircraft, I certainly watched and assisted as requested, and she gets upset if you can see CA marks on a join, she's one of the most meticulous builders I've ever seen. Given 40 plus years of building experience with flying models, and homebuilt aircraft, I know a light build by seeing it. I've yet to be surprised on a maiden flight, and don't suspect the Cessna will be any different. While the nose "feels" a tad heavy, downward pressure at the elevator to cause rotation is what I'd expect. She absolutely won't leap into the air after a 30 foot run, nor should it.

I did think about moving weight to the front of the cowl, for better effect, but I don't like the inability to conduct a test flight without the cowl, old habits die hard I guess, but also don't want the added weight and vibration causing wear on the attachment points of the cowl. I'll keep reporting until we've got a few flights under the belt, interesting conversations as always!
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Old 06-16-2016, 07:08 AM   #114
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Re: Top Flite Cessna 182

OK, did the weighing, and some math, and compared the Kit Specs to the ARF Specs.
Kit was test flown at 11 pounds weight, no accessories, and an OS .61 SF for power. Wing area of the kit is 906 sq in. Wing loading 23-23 oz per sq ft.
ARF, weight listed at 12.5 pounds, with 898 sq in wing area. Wing loading, 30-32 oz per sq ft.

Leeann's plane is 13 pounds, not bad given almost a pound of nose weight, and wing loading is 33 ozs per sq foot.

Note, depending on which version of the real 182 you're flying, wing loading is 16.9 - 17.8 pounds per square foot! At 1/5th scale, that would equate to a wing loading of 54.4 ozs per square foot.

I'd say that given we added, 2 pilots, complete cockpit kit, all of the ARF accessories, 3 batteries, with switches, nav lights, strobe light, 2 landing lights, approx. 3 yards of cloth, associated resin, paint, the airframe was built light, and overall weight and wing loading, especially given our windy flying conditions at Shearwater, will be quite acceptable. We might, at a later time, make a battery compartment in the nose section, and move the two square batteries into the cowl area, and possibly the throttle servo as well. Any lead weight we can subtract, by moving gear forward, will be good, but she'll fly rather well I suspect, as is. Thanks Len, and Mike, for all the helpful info and comments.
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Old 06-16-2016, 07:20 AM   #115
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Re: Top Flite Cessna 182

Another quick comparison, a 3DExtra330, with 72 in span, wing area of 1000 sq inches, and a weight of 160 ozs, 23 ozs per square foot wing loading. Pretty sure we're not looking to do 3D! Interesting to note that a comparison sheet of common kits of the same vintage as the Cessna, show the AT-6 Texan (Top Flite) with a wing loading of 34 ozs per square foot, 33 for the P-40, and 32 for the Spit, while the Corsair is 30, and P-51 28!
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Old 06-16-2016, 09:42 AM   #116
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Re: Top Flite Cessna 182

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Originally Posted by mwavesdave View Post
....Leeann's plane is 13 pounds, not bad given almost a pound of nose weight, and wing loading is 33 ozs per sq foot.

Note, depending on which version of the real 182 you're flying, wing loading is 16.9 - 17.8 pounds per square foot! At 1/5th scale, that would equate to a wing loading of 54.4 ozs per square foot.....
Given that, I guess I should stop worrying about how my 14 pound ARF will fly with the EVO 15CC.
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Old 06-16-2016, 02:40 PM   #117
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Re: Top Flite Cessna 182

We seem to want to overpower our planes, to be sure, and have them setup for flying in a way that the real deal wouldn't. Leeann's 1/4 Scale Piper Cub flies with a Saito 130 twin, very very scale like. She gets a lot of raves about it, and how it just seems to fly better than identical cubs with 30 cc gassers. At 14 lbs, you're about 35.3 ozs per square foot.
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Old 06-16-2016, 07:18 PM   #118
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Re: Top Flite Cessna 182

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We seem to want to overpower our planes, ......
I think you're right. Especially since I flew the kit on electric just fine with quite a bit less power.
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Old 06-16-2016, 08:15 PM   #119
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Re: Top Flite Cessna 182

We'll find out soon enough! lol Need an evening or two to finish it off, then whenever the weather is good, and Leeann's not working, we'll take her to the field. My Top Flite P-39 will be done Sunday evening, with luck, so it will be ready as well. I've also got the EZ P-51 that I'm getting flak over doing, it'll be ready shortly, so maybe a triple maiden.
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Old 07-01-2016, 08:00 PM   #120
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Re: Top Flite Cessna 182

Cessna is all done, ground engine run-ups complete, she's on charge now, and we'll see what the weather brings over the weekend. With luck, we'll get a flight or two in.
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