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Old 11-21-2003, 12:45 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by can773
Its not the chance of a mid-air that I am worried about, thats why I have 4 other competition planes to choose from.....I am concerned with a student losing their model on takeoff or landing while I am standing on that flightline.
I can see everyone's points in this discussion, however, this last one puzzles me. By saying this, are you saying that you only fly alone? Just wondering is all.

As I see it, we all take precautions before flying our models but there's nothing to say that the equipment we use isn't as much a danger as a "newbie taking off or landing", while we are on that flightline. I had a friend about a month ago take up a 1.20 sized sukhoi for the second time, only to have the crystal in the reciever fall out when he went vertical!(Nothing was hit) He is in his 70's now and still a very fine pilot, and checks everything before each flight. He will now add checking the crystal too when he checks to make sure that reciever is secure but that could have easily happened on the way in for landing or on take off and done some serious damage.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that I see your point covering a wide range of issues and senerios that could all result in you or another pilot being injured "on" the flightline. There's no totally safe practice, even if you are alone because who's to say your own plane won't do something strange? I do agree with your theory though about doing everything you can to maximize 'your' personal safety. There's not much else you can do.
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Old 11-21-2003, 12:48 AM   #32
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Good points Jim!
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Old 11-21-2003, 01:19 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by can773

Like I said to Derrick, I dont agree with the practise of having kids more or less unsupervised on the are not supervising a kid when you are flying, regardless if they are standing beside you or not....anyways really this is getting old.....they are your kids I really dont care what you do with them.
I am not argueing with you in hopes that you agree with me or not. I don't care if you ever agree with me. I do, however give a damn when I am labelled an "idiot" for doing what I think is safe for me. That's what really got my goat up!

Sorry Dennis for hijacking the original thread you had started but Chad's comments have really gotten the better of me tonight/this morning.
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Old 11-21-2003, 01:29 AM   #34
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You know, one of the reasons I don't hang around power fields much is because of the vast array of unsafe practices I see just about every time I go to one.

As for flying alone - I personally think that this is one practice that should DEFINTELY be 'banned' or at least heavily frowned on.

a good friend of mine did two stupid things one day ... he flew alone, then drove himself to the hospital (apc prop - 150 stitches, three broken fingers complete with pins and screws, schredded tendons)
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Old 11-21-2003, 01:41 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by Morison

As for flying alone - I personally think that this is one practice that should DEFINTELY be 'banned' or at least heavily frowned on.
Nice hand....
As for flying alone the only person who is going to get injured is the person who is there by themselves. If they decide to fly alone, again that is their choice. If the want to make the Darwin Award of the year list like your buddy then it' was their decision. The only time safety rules should be shoved down someone's throat is when they are doing something that has the potential to hurt others.
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Old 11-21-2003, 03:35 AM   #36
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I sure hope no politicans come across this site. After reading through this thread many would certainly introduce legislation to BAN any form of R/C flying. I'm almost convinced one has to be an idiot to have anything to do with R/C aircraft. The potential cost to medicare alone should be enough for a ban.
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Old 11-21-2003, 03:41 AM   #37
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Excellent post Ken!

This is the exact same comment I said in a the other discussion!
We should be posting and discussing the finer points of what MOST OF US do and not BLACKBALL this sport because of what a couple of less safety minded people do!

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Old 11-21-2003, 05:17 AM   #38
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Lets see now,MAAC saftey code $ 3 d-Saftey vs sensationalism.Hummm.Sounds like the same topic to me just different approach to reopen the origional topic.
Fellas,lets face it,rules and guidelines are designed to protect us from ourselves.Good,bad and indifferent.There will always be those who feel they are invincible and the rules donot apply to them.
If memory serves me,MAAC does not cover member to member claims but that does not mean we should turn a blind eye to dangerous flyers or ask those doing extreme flying to move it further out into a comfortable zone.
The picture of the lovely hand should serve as a reminder that flying alone is really not a good idea and that always practice saftey.We do it in our work atmosphere why forget it in our hobbie.
For all of us to rant and rave who is right or wrong on this issue or what rules should be imposed or not,well,it's becoming annoying.
I suggest that each club and every member simply apply the suggested rules and guidelines as presented by MAAC and modify with the interest of saftey for the flying site you all use.
We will never be able to controll 100% of all things in life to present the perfect safe environment for everyone. That's just life.
Nuff said.
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Old 11-21-2003, 07:06 AM   #39
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Thanks, Rammer…

That's the point I originally tried to make. We have a Safety Code - we agree to honour it - lets go about our business of having fun. As for canning the invective - too much to hope apparently. It simply doesn't make anyone look good.

However, if a safety Code item contains the term "3D" which is not clearly defined, the organization needs to rectify the situation. "3D" is the very essence of all flight as previously pointed out.

"Simplicate and add lightness"
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Old 11-21-2003, 07:58 AM   #40
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Whew! You boys have some "interesting" conversations while I'm offline.

I agree, 3D is a slang term, not a definition. I've read many conversations on this subject (and had many at various meets). Many try to define 3d as "manuevers performed while the aircraft is stalled". This is a poor definition that would include snaps, spins, lomcevaks (sp?) full stall landings etc. etc.

I smiled when I saw the references to ANSI, CSA and other standards bodies. Although these groups do attempt to establish good safety practices, they are standards bodies, not safety organizations. Being in an industry with many standards (incl. many ANSI) I can tell you that innovation is definitely hindered by standards and many standards do not make good sense in practice (mostly due to some unforseen external influence). There is a saying in my industry that goes something like "a (programming) language is deemed dead once the ANSI standard is established". This has invariably proven itself true over the past few decades. The simple fact is that human language is imprecise and cannot hope to encompass any broad category. If you endeavour to hold to a written statement, there will always be some interpretation required including the "intent" and comprehension at the time of writing.

The problem being that, once a standard is established, many bean-counter types will resist anything that challenges the existing standard once it's in black & white. I sincerely hope this does not become the case for this hobby.

In the other thred, Andrew said it best by referring us to a history lesson. You don;t have to look very far back to recall a time when most disciplines we now think of as common were considered far too hazardous for general modelling. Further, modelling has expanded to encompass a richer variety of disciplines that defy any simplicity when trying to establish rules.

I'm sure the safety committee has our best interests in mind but , I think the process needs improvement.

For example, I wanted to fly my electric indoor heli (hummingbird) at the club meeting last night. I'm convinced I could establish a safe environment but the meeting hall (the same I flew indoor at on Friday night) was not a "MAAC flying field", nor was the event sanctioned. Where do you draw the line?
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