building/moding a somethin extra, but what is a stall tip? - Page 3 - RCCanada - Canada Radio Controlled Hobby Forum
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Old 01-23-2004, 08:57 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by Gary Maker
Hey Jim, The first time I ever met you and your dad was many years ago when I lived in Larder Lake and use to go every year to the Rouyn Noranda Fun Fly in Quebec. And the very first time I ever saw stall tips was on a couple of planes you were flying there. After some discussion with you on this subject I decided to put the stall tips on my GP 40 size Super Decathelon.

Myself and others I have talked to, who have flown one of these planes, discovered the hard way how they can unexpectantly snap on you when you least expect it, especially on take off and landings if you don't keep the airspeed up. Back then I was fairly new to RC and this $#@% plane was a handfull for me. I had repaired it a couple of times due to its tendency to snap at the wrong time. After installing the stall tips it was a completely better handleing plane. I could slow it right down on landing without it snaping on me for the first time since I had built it.

IMHO theres nothing wrong with a bandaid if it acomplishes its purpose and keeps me from bleeding all over the place OR keeps me from snapping my plane into the ground when I'm trying to land it!
What happens to that same model during normal flight when you are trying to get a good break into a snap, or spin. How does it fly in a crosswind, or knife edge before and after the plates? For a truly good aerobatics model you need one that will stall when you want it yet posses great stable low speed flying, a good wing is still the best way to get that.

While plates may help (which from my experiments they dont), you are going to disturb other areas of flight causing other problems. I guess it just depends on what you are looking for.
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Old 01-23-2004, 12:11 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by ronm

Another thing to consider is sealing hinge gaps. The pressure leakage from bottom to top through the gaps also reduces effective wing area.
(along with other undesirable effects)

Speaking of this, if you have, say 1/8" gap, can you just iron down a 1/2" wide piece of covering to "hide" that gap? Just fasten it on the TE of stab so it extends like a flap over the gap to say 1/4" overlap (unfastened) on the elevator--fastened on the stab, cover the gap, unfastened on the elev., sort of like the flap on an evelope that isn't sealed.

Or would that unfastened TE of the flap just "flap around" in flight?
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Old 01-23-2004, 01:28 PM   #23
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Just cut a 1" wide strip, crease it longwise, then iron it into the gap.
Just make sure the crease is at the hinge-line, and it won't restrict the control movement. Iron the whole strip, don't leave any loose edges.

Ron Mattiuz

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Old 01-23-2004, 05:27 PM   #24
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Chad, if you noticed I said I was fairily new to RC at the time, I had only had my wings for a month or so. I was probably guilty of building a second plane that was a bit too much to handle and was more concerned with keeping it in the air than doing knife edge or purposefully trying to make it snap or what ever. I was thrilled to have a sporty plane taking off, flying around and landing in one piece.

I was trying to be very carefull NOT to dispute your greater knowledge of aerodynamics and never flew this plane with the intent of doing any kind of extreme aerobatics.

With that purpose in mind, it did help me at the time to use the stall tip plates!
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Old 01-24-2004, 09:46 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by ronm
Just cut a 1" wide strip, crease it longwise, then iron it into the gap.
Just make sure the crease is at the hinge-line, and it won't restrict the control movement. Iron the whole strip, don't leave any loose edges.

Excellent. Thank you.
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Old 01-24-2004, 11:05 PM   #26
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great tips, but....

great tips on stall tips, any tips on the somethin extra?

i do like to buy other peoples junk...

Bob the Builder is my pilot.

i wish i were more gruntled.

ch 41
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Old 01-24-2004, 11:39 PM   #27
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Do what you can to keep it light, and you will have a great flying aircraft.
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Old 02-14-2004, 01:54 PM   #28
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Iím going to wade in here against my better judgment as winglets are as much a matter of opinion on widebody aircraft as they are on our models. From what I understand about winglets and I am no expert by any stretch of the imagination, whatís been said here is pretty much correct. On an airliner winglets are there to improve wing efficiency period and maybe some small visual appeal. Now there is never a free lunch and these winglets are no exception. The weight of the winglets also creates drag which in turn cost in the form of fuel consumption so their worth is easy to debate. Airbus likes them as do most of the Business Jet manufactures, and that alone pretty much tells you there is a lot of visual appeal reasons to manufacture a wing with winglets. While at the last Pratt conference I talked to a Boeing engineer who said if the mod to get rid of the winglets on the 747-400 was economical to accomplish then Boeing would do it.
With our models you can still tip stall with winglets or tip plates installed, but if a simple stall strip was used on the L/E of the wing at the root the model would not tip stall. Not to mention you can fine tune the installation to gain some predictability in the stall. Or you could build a wing that stalls at the root first. Personally I wouldnít want to go through all the rocket science and close tolerance building skill that would require. But thatís me and to each their own. Iíd be the first to admire the craftsmanship though.

Just my 2 cents.

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Old 02-20-2004, 07:08 PM   #29
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I beleive the winglets on the larger jets were also added to help reduce wingtip votices which tends to cause other planes to flip over when they hit these vortices. Sorry it's been a while since I was in Aircraft Maintenance school hehe.

Ron Despins
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Old 02-23-2004, 08:26 AM   #30
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I have worked in fluid dynamics for many years & I can assure you that tip plates really do work. They have been around for a long time and they are intended to increase lift & reduce drag without the weight, drag & structural load penalties from increased span. A usefull side benefit is the reduction in tip stall propensity.

They reduce induced drag by preventing the recirculation of high pressure under-wing air over the tip into the low-pressure zone on the outer wing upper surface, and by reducing the size of the tip vortice. Depending upon the wing shape, the drag reduction can be as much as 15%. They are most usefull on low aspect ratio wings & particularly in cases where high G pullups & steep turns are required by heavily loaded aircraft, such as crop dusters. On high aspect ratio wings with narrow tips they are less effective, but they can extend an aircraft's range by ~ 5% without the costly penalty of increasing wingspan.

If you have a heavy model that sags in turns & has a high stall speed, then tip plates can help. They would be particularly good on trainers due the reduction in stall speed & would also be usefull in any tight turning application (combat?).

Hope this helps
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