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Old 01-06-2016, 10:07 AM   #1
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Pitch to learn on (with 450)

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Hi all. I am at a confused part of my learning, and I KNOW the answer is out there but for all my searching I can't find it.

First. I am confused about idle up. Almost all of the idle n/iu1/iu2 diagrams i see keep the throttle limit set to 100%. Where as I was under the impression I wanted about 2500rpm for normal, 2800rpm for stunt and 3000rpm for 3d (not that ill be using the latter anytime soon). Almost all helis i watch videos of, after take up, you can tell when iu is hit because headspeed is increased, no?

Secondly, pitch values. My machine is maxed out 100% travel =+-12% Most everywhere I can find has

n mode

lets not talk about iu1 vs iu2 for now, but i am more concerned with having, what most would suggest, 3000rpm and +12 pitch on normal mode. I have played around in sim settings and for learning a pitch of +8 seems nice. Am i missing something? will there be a failure if i set n mode to +8 and ui1/2 to +12 while switching in air? Am I hearing things in the vids regarding a changed of headspeed? would it be wrong to have values of say...for n mode?

pitch, more or less

throttle...more or less.

thanks everyone!

Again these values are based off of -+12% pitch Thr 3000rpm. 20% expo for everything. should i adjust expo instead of pitch reach for nmode instead?
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Old 01-06-2016, 11:06 AM   #2
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Re: Pitch to learn on (with 450)

If you say you are learning to fly, you want to have the pitch and throttle curves that are helpful to the beginner. as a beginner, IGNORE the 3 flight mode setups. Its just a recipe for disaster. Later, when you have more flying skill, you will also have more flying ability and the flight modes can be dialled in for more agressive flying.

For beginner, you want 1 flight mode,
Beginner lowstick = Throttle off. High stick maybe 85% power. I wont give particular figures for TX settingbecause that is irrelevant. Especially so with pitch curve

Beginner Pitch = -2degrees (approximate) to +6 degrees(approximate). I say approximate because when I do beginner setups I fly the heli to dial in the pitch curve so that it feels right. Bottom line is you dont want the heli shooting up, nor do you want it slamming down when the collective is raised or lowered aggressively. As skills improve beyond rank beginner stage, max pitch can be raised a little.

Once a beginner has mastered the basics of hovering and mild translation flying, he is ready for stunt 1 (Idle Up) Still, at this point, NO 3D is programmed into the radio.

the only difference between Normal mode and stunt 1 is low stick throttle is raised from 0 to +35%. Again, that number is aproximate. with stick at 1/4, I engage stunt1 and lower the heli to the ground. Then dial in low stick until you get a decent head speed wit the stick bottomed. At this point I cant stress enough: YOU MUST BE CONFIDENT AND CAPABLE OF USING THE THROTTLE HOLD AT A SECOND's NOTICE if you use anything other than Normal mode. As soon as things go south for whatever reason, use the throttle hold.

Now the advanced beginner flies at stunt 1 while practicing forward flight and descents. The difference between Normal and stunt1 is when the flier makes a power descent (lowering throttle) the hei descends with power. If the beginner were to try to do that in Normal mode, the motor stops at bottom stick- not good.

Once you progress beyond stunt1 and can fly forward flight and descend safely, you are experienced enough to raise power and pitch in stunt 1. And when you progress beyond that point, you can begin using stunt2 for 3D flying.
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Old 01-06-2016, 01:01 PM   #3
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Re: Pitch to learn on (with 450)

Thank you for your input and affirming some of my ideas. I have not seen the 35% stunt mode to learn on but it makes sense! I was doing blade tracking using a foam board as a backdrop so I could see the tape better and it fell on the blades, i was the hold at 3000 rpm, and it broke the airframe free of the skids and i slammed throttle down in a knee jerk reaction (down col, 100% thr) and I even shut the tranny off...the heli ate itself up until the main gear stripped. It wasn't until all was said and done that I realized I had neglected the hold switch! and could have saved a few bucks. So I stress this point and understand why you would too!

Thanks again.

Last edited by barrettrussell; 01-07-2016 at 01:04 AM.
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Old 01-07-2016, 01:13 AM   #4
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Re: Pitch to learn on (with 450)

So setting up on the sim, I have a stock 450 trex g im practicing on, no adjusting any value on the heli itseself. I set my collective to 80% or so to drop the overall pitch in col. but the problem that arises is my ail/ele/ are extremely sensitive still. Also it seems to want to fall out of the sky a bit more on down collective than feels comfortable. Should I keep my values set to the standard in collective, and instead set the separate inputs to a lesser amount? I am imagining this will work better, and when I have time i will try. Just wondering if there are any real world issues with this...and if I am making this more dificult than it has to be. Also, the reason for setting a flight mode beginner while have a unit with a fully capable fbl (vbar) is that I can then simple program the other modes in the radio and not have to fully redo my vbar setting and potentially change something when the time for more flight modes comes.


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Old 01-10-2016, 09:00 AM   #5
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Re: Pitch to learn on (with 450)

By no means am I an expert, however there are differing opinions on how to begin with helis and I still remember trying to sort out everything when I first started. As someone who did not have a RC background until I began with my first heli about 5 yrs ago I will tell my opinion.

If you plan on doing any 3D including simple loops and rolls I suggest you set your transmitter/simulator for 3D right from the start. If you get into the habit of lowering your throttle when you get into trouble and you are in idle up mode you will drive the heli right into the ground. I quickly learned to use my throttle hold which kills engine power but still allows control of the pitch.

First. I am confused about idle up.-> Idle up is stunt mode....you will have a linear pitch curve (+/-) and an "almost" constant throttle curve.
Unlike a plane which has a constant pitch prop and thrust is varied based on rpm, the heli normally varies the pitch of the blade rather than rpm. Although if you need more thrust you will increase rpm (ie 2500 -> 3000rpm).

Even if you do not plan on doing 3D for sometime try to get used to flying in idle up. I found that the heli was more stable and responsive.
The issue of it falling too quickly with slight collective adjustment could be because you are in normal mode and both speed and pitch are decreasing together.

I am more concerned with having, what most would suggest, 3000rpm and +12 pitch on normal mode. ->
Normal mode is usually for taking off and landing. You need some negative pitch or heli will not come down, but too much will cause it to want to drive itself into the ground as you spool up. You also need to make sure you have enough head speed before taking off or you could do a tip over and have a blade strike. That is why your pitch curve starts around 40%.
You also don't want the heli to suddenly rise or fall as you switch between normal and idle modes, part of the reason why max pitch and head speed is the same in normal and idle up #1.

If you become proficient with the simulator you will find it definitely helps flying the real thing. When I first started on a sim (phoenix) I found it very difficult to even hover, but over time it become easier and easier.

Hope this helps.
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Old 01-11-2016, 03:10 PM   #6
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Re: Pitch to learn on (with 450)

One addition: make sure the pitch curves in IU and throttle hold match. When I was new to RC helis, I once used a 40-45-50-60-70 IU pitch curve and a 0-25-50-75-100 throttle hold pitch curve. Guess what happened when I hit throttle hold. It wouldn't have been too bad if I hadn't been hovering in the basement...
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