Oakville - Page 3 - RCCanada - Canada Radio Controlled Hobby Forum
RCCanada - Canada's Radio Control Hobby Forum
Combat Discuss Aerial Combat.

Closed Thread
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-10-2004, 09:15 AM   #21
Lou Melancon
RCC Noob
Join Date: Feb 2004

Feedback: 0 / 0%
Posts: 21
Total Props: 0

       Remove this ad - become a site supporter!
Dave F,
Thank you for the very insightful post as it helps me understand more the intent you are driving towards at the Oakville contest.

First, a resounding "yes" to disqualifying planes that do not meet the published rules. It is not right to disqualify selectively, as the rules must be applied equally to all. If folks have built WWII fighters that are small, but do not meet the scale fidelity requirements they must be disqualified just as you will do for those that are built large. There can be no favoritism or selective application of the rules. Why have rules if you do not apply them?

I would also like to correct a misconception that folks who fly larger "freaks" are doing it to gain competitive advantage. That may be true for some, but many others, me included prefer a larger airplane that flies better and is easier to see. I score much better with the Boeing XF8B than I do with the 5% enlarged Corsair. The Boeing has a 54" wing with almost 550 square inches, the Corsair is 44" span and has about 380 squares. The wing loading is much greater on the Corsair than the Boeing. In Texas, in the 2548 demo, I had to throttle the Corsair back to 50% to not overfly the competition. It is more like a pylon racer than a combat plane, and that is with a normal muffler and 5% fuel. It is too fast and squirrelly to be flown accurately in combat.

It appears that there are two forces at work in your contest thinking: first limiting the level of competition, and second saving planes. In my opinion, neither can be controlled by rules application. Some folks are more competitive than others, and you will always find these folks in any competition activity. We could tell Tiger Woods he has to hold the club backwards, and eventually he would still find a way to win. You can't take the competitiveness out of a competitor. Incidentally these are the folks you want in combat because they are not "fair weather" participants, but instead the ones who see hurdles as mountains that need climbing rather than reasons to quit.

Second saving airplanes will only happen if folks don't fly combat. In combat you are going to lose planes, and in Scale you are going to lose a lot more than in open because of the restrictions on appearance which limits armoring that scale planes because of requirements to maintain scale fidelity. Scale planes are also smaller, and faster.

Four years ago the technology bar for US Scale Combat was set by Jim Bodnar and his foam, and kevlar KI64s, to a level that has been seen again. A complete construction article can be found on Jim's web site or from the link on www.georgiacombat.com. Jim did nothing illegal, nor did he exploit the rules looking for "loopholes", instead he took the rules and developed the best planes he could for them. That is how a competitor approaches competition.

What has changed the level of participation in Scale Combat in the US are a combination of factors: the rise in Open, the number of contests, and the increased power applied to 1/12th airframes.

When Scale combat was the sole event in US combat, participation was very high. But this was also due to the fact that there were very few contests. Two per year was considered all one could attend, so the loss of airframes was offset by the time between events to rebuild them. Now with large contests 30 days apart it is very difficult to build/re-build Scale and Open planes in the time available.

Dave F, you cannot committ to fliers that their airplanes will not be lost, they will; you cannot limit competition by changing rules because competitors will learn the new rules and then beat you by them because it is their nature to be competitive; and finally scale builders are not necessarily combat competitors, as competition is a state of mind rather than a learned skill.

Will 2548 become a real event in the US? It is hard to know. Right now it is attracting some 2610 fliers, but not many new fliers. So, it could replace 2610, but more likely will cause some new thinking to come into 2610 if it has any impact at all. One of the judges was sharing with me his thoughts after judging the airplanes and he commented that the airplane that scored the best in static judging was also the one with lowest overall standard of craftsmanship. In other words it met the "markings" rule, but up close was a pretty grim looking plane. That is not what the organizers intended so they are working toward fixing that now.

In modeling there are builders, fliers and competitors. In combat the folks who stick with it are all three.

By the way, I do spend a fair amount of time on the internet forums and in email but have also found time to build:

- Three HE 100 SSC Warbirds
- Four GRS Falcons
- 3 SSC Cobras
- MIG 5 Twin
- F4U Corsair

Since December with a C3603, TA152, ME209HV1 on the work bench now, so I do build more than I surf.
Lou Melancon is offline   Quick reply to this message.

Sponsored Links - Subscribe to remove this ad.
Old 04-10-2004, 10:15 AM   #22
RCC Apprentice
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Detroit,MI

Feedback: 0 / 0%
Posts: 31
Total Props: 0

Congratulations, you have succeeded in dissuading at least one future combat flyer. RonM, Mart, you and your planes will be more than welcome in the Detroit Area for some RC Scale Combat "BY The Rules" as they are written, not as they are deciphered. I will not turn you away.

Anyone is welcome at our events, and by the current AMA rules, if I list the events as Open, I cannot restrict the participants by skill, plane , flying style, color, religion, hair color, amount of bad breath, funny dress code, men wearing dresses, people riding cows, or any other ridiculous thing that you might consider. If the planes fall within the letter of the rules, I will allow them. And by the rules that I have seen, the letter of the rules allows a wide participation base of aircraft. I actually look forward to some of the more obscure and lesser seen designs, it means that people are actually doing research, and in the process learning, about WWII and the military aircraft of the time.


P.S. Dave, you are looking like a fool, I know for a FACT IceEagle and Sky Witch are two different people, and that Sky Witch flys combat. Sky Witch has registered for my event, so it looks like you have lost yet another pilot, keep it up.
headshot is offline   Quick reply to this message.
Old 04-10-2004, 11:54 AM   #23
RCC Junior Contributor
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: MI, USA

Feedback: 0 / 0%
Posts: 207
Total Props: 0
I think I will pass on combat for now.
It seems you have a full contest already, and one less will not mean anything.
It's just too confusing.
The rule issue only applies to 2004 and only (so far) to the Oakville event CD'd by Mr Fallowfield (Crosscheck).
As of 2005, the Combat committee has changed the rules to fly only their type of aircraft (Single seat fighters that flew between 1935 and 1945)
If you want to fly 2610 class scale combat in Canada, then you will have to abide by that rule after 2004. (You know, the rule that was snuck by the MAAC AGM with no publicity or pre-discussion in the general community)
Like Headshot (who is also a CD), I'm appalled that this behaviour from a CD has discouraged you from flying combat.
But come on down to one of our events at the Radio Control Club of Detroit (in Lenox county, just 40 minutes from Sarnia or Windsor) and the rules will be the same this year and next!

Keith J
Secretary RCCD
RCCA # 622
(and former MAAC Instructor)
lightning is offline   Quick reply to this message.
Closed Thread

Quick Reply

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the RCCanada - Canada Radio Controlled Hobby Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

Member names may only be composed of alpha-numeric characters. (A-Z and 0-9)

!!ATTENTION ADVERTISERS!! If you intend on advertising anything on this forum, whatsoever, you are required to first contact us here . Additionally, we do NOT allow BUSINESS NAMES unless you are an Authorized Vendor. If you own a business, and want to do sales on this site via posting or private message, you will need to follow the rules. Shops, Stores, Distributors, Group Buys without being authorized will see your account terminated.
User Name:
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:
Your Name
Your first name and last initial is required if you plan on using the forum.
Which city & province you live in. This is mandatory for classified listings.
Radio of choice?
Which radio is your current favorite to use?
Number of RC Vehicles?
How many boats, cars, planes do you own?


Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
vBulletin Message

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Forum Jump

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:01 PM.

vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2016 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.