Facet 1200 maiden flight... - RCCanada - Canada Radio Controlled Hobby Forum
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Old 08-01-2004, 05:47 PM   #1
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Facet 1200 maiden flight...

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Did the maiden flight on my Wren MW54 today. It last about 8 sec....Stop at the beginning of the runway, half throttle about 50 feets then full throttle after about 180-200 feets pull-up then the plane almost snap to the right and crash..Dont know why..I have a 4.3 megs video of it but i cant host it. Someone can do it for me?? Maybe it will help to see what i did wrong...Everything was at '0' with an incidence meter...I'm kind of down now...
Sorry for my bad english
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Old 08-01-2004, 06:39 PM   #2
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Sorry to hear about you crash. I know how you must feel.
I know it is a silly question but your Ailerons were not reveresed correct?

The other thing that comes to mind is either that there was not enough power and it stalled or the C of G was not set correctly.

Anyhow, Kevin will chip in I am sure since he flies his Facet regularly.

Really sorry again,

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Old 08-01-2004, 10:19 PM   #3
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Sorry to hear about your crash. My AV8R had a similar start in life. I then rebuilt it and continued to have problems until I sorted everything out. Now it flies fine. I am sure you will figure out what went wrong, especially after watching the video a few times. Good luck and keep at it!

Is it rebuildable?
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Old 08-01-2004, 11:03 PM   #4
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Here is the video Clip

Here is the video of the mishap. It looks to me like it didn't have enough air speed and stalled but just my two cents. Facet1200 Crash
What do you mean , I can land upside down
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Old 08-01-2004, 11:57 PM   #5
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I'm really sorry about the crash. I watched the video several times..the only observation was that the right wing dropped as soon as the jet was rotated...why? I can't tell...

Rebuild it, double check everything - incidences, control throws and direction, thrust angle, cg - everything! Then get someone else to double check that....

The sooner you fall behind, the more time you will have to catch up.
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Old 08-02-2004, 12:53 AM   #6
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Very sorry about your crash. I really hope you can rebuild without too much effort.

I had a look at your video and I think I can outline some contributing factors, if not nail down the cause.

I froze the picture just before your right wing dropped, and after some very crude measurements I found your fuselage reference line was in excess of 20 degrees above the horizon. Given that your angle of climb was not very high, I would estimate less than 5 degrees, that leaves you with an angle of attack of over 15 degrees, which is the stalling angle for a typical wing. So, I think it stalled. Why did the right wing drop during the stall? Well this could be due to many (almost chaotic) factors, including wind, asymmetric aircraft balance, asymmetric ailerons, torque, slight wing warp, etc. Any or all of these may be at play. Of course, the torque from your (very nice) little jet engine is not that high but it will induce some gyroscopic forces, which may also affected the way it behaved after it stalled.

Anyway, how do stop that from happening again? First, the video seems to indicate that the time at mil power was not that long, (about 3 seconds) so although you had a seemingly long takeoff roll, the spoolup time reduced the thrust of your engine and this contributed to a low airspeed at rotation. Also, you undoubtedly got more "nose up" than you probably wanted at rotation, which is commonly called an over-rotation. The over-rotation caused the stall. What caused the over-rotation?

Your airplane is one big balancing act, both in the air and on the ground. If your C of G is relatively far FORWARD, or your main wheels are relatively AFT of your C of G, then your elevator has to produce a greater force to move your nose UP to effect rotation. Also, if your main/nosegear combination caused your wing incidence to be negative, (i.e., your nose pointed slightly downward while sitting on its wheels) then as you increase airspeed your wing will actually be working AGAINST a rotation. Then your elevator has to work against the wing until the airspeed increases to the point where it is effective enough to overcome the downforce of the wing and WHOOSE, you get a big over-rotation. It happened to me with one of my models. Look at an A-4 Skyhawk and note how high the nose is while the aircraft is on the ground. Undoubtedly, this is to help effect a predictable rotation. The F-18 uses rudder toe-in to allow provide extra nose-up force for takeoff rotation.

So what does it all mean? None of these things may have happened to you, or maybe small bits of all of these factors were at play. I canít really tell from the video. However, here are some things I would check:

- make sure the nose is not pointed down while sittin gon the ground- raise nose wheel if necessary;
- make sure the main wheels are not located too far aft ( maybe bend them forward slightly);
- make sure the C of G is with in recommended limits;
- give yourself more time at max power before you rotate-consider spooling up against brakes or have a partner hold the jet;
- don't use too much up elevator to rotate;

I hope this wasn't too long and I hope this info helps. Happy flying!

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Old 08-02-2004, 07:06 AM   #7
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I checked the ailerons, no reversing. I haved about a 10km/h wind straight in front of me. It look like a pulled it out too soon, even if it was beginning to feel light on the wheels. So probably dumb thumb...Gee....

I will be out for 4-5 days so watch the Vids and give me feed back....

Since only about 2 month left for flying, i'm thinking to order a Kangaroo 2. I never rebuilt a crashed plane.
Sorry for my bad english
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Old 08-02-2004, 09:39 AM   #8
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If that was a propeller driven plane I would say you didn't have enough airspeed and stalled on takeoff. (maybe a little too much elevator?) Only my bigger engines will forgive me for pulling up that fast.

I would say get back on the horse. Your first flight is a BIG learning experience because you have no idea how the plane will fly.
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Old 08-02-2004, 10:17 AM   #9
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I also agree... I think you were not going fast enough when you tried to climb way too steeply. I usually take off and let the jet accelerate another few hundred feet allmost barely climbing up before I start feeding in more elevator to make certain it is going fast enough.

are you using brakes? try spooling up the engine to full power before you lrelease them, or if not just accelerate a lot faster and let the model build up more ground speed before you ease it off the runway.

I would rebuild it though, it should be ideal for your location.

It sucks to crash, but I have had my share and just let it go for a week or so and then you wont feel so bad. Then get to fixing it!
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1/2A to giant scale, IMAC, SAM, R/C sport, turbine jets, Heli's...
if its got a wing or two and an engine - I like it!
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Old 08-02-2004, 11:30 AM   #10
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Claude, sorry to here about your Facet's mishap.... I agree with the other guy's comments based on the video footage you have, It looks like she stalled due to too low a flying/liftoff speed. How much elevator application did you use? or did she lift off almost by itself? as this may indicate wether CG or a trim issue. Your runway also looks shortish from what I could see, If possible for you I would personally recommend maybe flying her first from a larger field for maiden flights until model is trimmed and comfortable with models flight manners. Bring her down to our 3000' Picton clubs sealed runway for testing if you like.
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