|09-02-2004, 06:24 PM||#1|
First draft Team Scale Rules
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I am hoping that with your help and with the guidance of the Scale Chairman we can use this forum to actually develop a workable set of rules for Team Scale. Once we have tweaked them a bit here we can turn them over to the Scale Chairman Jim McIntyre to submit to the Scale Committee.
First I would like to present my original thoughts behind this when I originally proposed Team Scale and where I think it has developed.
When I attended my first NATS as a competitor it was at the urging of Chuck Smith and Fred Tonge. Chuck was the Scale Chair and Fred is a well respected and very experienced modeler and member of my home club the Sun Parlor RC Flyers. Even with Chuck’s encouragement I don’t think Palmer (Jabba) and I would have followed through without the support before and at the event by Fred. He had competed before and kept assuring us we would do all right.
Not only did we do OK but it was a blast and both Palmer and I are hooked. I left that event and the only thing I could think of was lots of guys at our club are not only capable of competing but I was sure they would have a blast doing so. The hardest part I was to find out was convincing them.
It was at this time that I had an idea that might encourage others to take that first step into competition. That would be Team Scale where the cost and work of building a suitable model might be split up among several guys and at the same time they all might take turns and fly the same model in competition. They would share the static score but would receive individual flying scores. Also by being a group they could support and help each other through the building and flying portions something up until now you had to do all by yourself. I felt this might remove some of the pressure felt by first time competitors.
As an introductory event I did not get too specific on the rules other than they follow loosely the Canadian Sportsman category as to judging and flying. Chuck felt it might be better at this time to let some of the rules fall into place by listening to the majority of the people who might compete. What happened was a team scale event where the model ended up being flown only by one pilot (the best of the group) and this was not the direction I had hoped this would develop into. So now that I have had time to take a good look at it and also more experience I would like to start this discussion out with a revision of my original proposal.
All I ask is that you look it over and if we could try and make it workable. With all of us contributing think how knowledgeable we will be with the rule book for this event when we finally present it to the committee for approval.
Here goes heaven help me!!!!!!!!!
To encourage a group of flyers to make a joint effort to build and fly a scale model as an introduction to scale competition at a national event. Hopefully through this medium we might develop the interest and participation in the individual scale classes and insure future growth of our Canadian Nationals and seeds for future FAI events.
Static and Flying
So that there are not a whole new set of rules for the judges to learn, and to introduce the flyer to an already established format of judging for both the static and flying portion of competition we will follow the Canadian Sportsman classification. These rules can be found at the end of the Scale rule book under Section VI for more detail. Also there are diagrams and descriptions of many of the maneuvers you might use when flying scale.
Static Score is comprised of:
1. Accuracy of outline 0 to 20 points
2. Craftsmanship 0 to 20 points
3. Color and Markings 0 to 20 points
So as you can see the maximum the team could receive is 60 points in Static judging for a perfect model. This score would be added once only to the calculated score of the teams flying participants. You will see how it works at the end I will go through a sample score sheet.
Each pilot who wished to fly would fly a certain set of maneuvers with one optional of their choice. Remember there is no additional or bonus marks for the difficulty of the optional maneuver so choose one that you know you can do well so you can score the highest points. Unlike pattern or Imac you do not have to fly these maneuvers in a continuous sequence. You may actually call a dead pass. Instead you are judged from the moment you declare you are starting a maneuver until you call that the maneuver is finished. Here the sequence you will be expected to fly.
1. Take off 0 to 10
2. Straight Flight 0 to 10
3. Procedure Turn 0 to 10
4. Optional Maneuver 0 to 10
5. Traffic Pattern 0 to 10
6. Landing 0 to 10
You will fly with maneuver #2 and #3 combined to form a straight flight out followed by a procedure turn and straight flight back. Numbers 5 and 6 are also combined into one maneuver. I will now give and example of a call for the judges with the optional maneuver being a loop. Remember you will only be judged between the call of the start and end of the maneuver. Obviously if you fail to call the start or end your score for that maneuver will be affected. That is why you have someone standing with you when you fly so they can remind you and you can concentrate on the flying portion.
Ok the plane is running and you are ready to start. I like to announce my intended maneuver to the judges and then use the “Starting Now” and “Complete” to begin and end each maneuver.
“Take Off starting now when you reach an altitude of 15 to 20 feet you may announce “Complete” and judging will stop. A 90 degree turn away from the flight line also ends the judging but I would always inform the judges the maneuver is complete.
You may now trim your plane and even declare a dead pass with no penalty. You must be aware you have a time window in which you must complete all the maneuvers.
I announce to the judges as I am lining up with the flight line that my next maneuver will be a Straight Flight Out followed by A Procedure Turn. When I am ready I declare “Starting Now” and when I am finished “Complete”
As I am lining up again I announce to the judges that my next maneuver ( the one optional) will be a loop and when I am satisfied with my position I say “Starting Now” and when finished “Complete”.
Once again when I am ready I announce my next maneuver will be a Traffic Pattern followed by a Landing and like the others before “Starting Now” and “Complete”
That my friends is a round of flying. The Maximum possible score is 60 points.
Addressing the Calculation of the Scoring for Team Scale
All pilots will have the option of flying 3 rounds using the best two flight scores to calculate individual and team points.
There should be a trophy for the best individual performance by a pilot and first, second and third for the team portion.
Top Individual performance is simply the pilot with the most points from his top two rounds. Stricktly flying ability static points do not count.
In the actual team points calculation the problem exists on how to even the playing field so that it would not be an advantage to have one good pilot who would only fly 3 rounds and us his best two to represent the team effort. However at the same time I did not want to place any limits on teams with only one pilot confident in actually flying. I wanted to get everyone involved even the guy who said he would help build but didn’t want to fly.
Realistically in a competition setting I would think the risk factor increases with the greater number of pilots flying the same model. I thought a K factor or bonus factor for the greater number of pilots a team fields in taking part might be in order and actually encourage more members of the team to fly. These numbers are only arbitrary and there are better than me at figuring out what might work and not work its only to give you an idea upon which we might build something. So here goes feel free to make suggestions.
One pilot 0
Two pilots +5% of the calculated flying score.
Three pilots +10% of the calculated flying score
Any more than 3 pilots the best 3 are used for the calculation and they also receive the +10% bonus as well.
With this formula it is an advantage to field as many good flyers as a team can to have not only the greatest bonus but the greater number of the best scores to choose from. Below is a fictional set of circumstances and scores.
Sample Score Sheet
This team has 5 members which only 4 will fly. Teams will be made up of a maximum of 6 members. Each member will be listed on the score sheet as a team member. If they do not fly there will be no flight score for that name. That way all team member get recognition as being part of the team whether they fly or not.
Static score 43
1’st Round 2n’d Round 3r’d Round
Member 1 36 47 41
Member 2 39 26 39
Member 3 42 48 51
Member 4 30 33 38
Member 5 NA NA NA
Team Scale Score Sheet
1. Accuracy of outline 16
2. Craftsmanship 18
3. Color and Markings 15
Total 49 Static points
Member Round 1 Round 2 Round 3 Total best 2
1. 36 47 41 88
2. 39 26 39 78
3. 42 48 51 99
4. 30 33 38 71
From this score sheet we can see the scores that would be entered for the best individual performance from this team would be Pilot # 3 with 99 out of a possible 120 points
The team scores are the average of the individual totals each pilot up to a maximum of 3. If there are more than 3 flyers on the team the top 3 individual scores will be averaged for the team total. The bonus is now calculated and added to the score and last the static score is added.
First case a calculation for the team as listed above. The top 3 scores are from:
Pilot # 3 99
Pilot # 1 88
Pilot # 2 78
Total 265 Average 88.33
3 Flyers bonus 10% 8.83
Total flying score is Average + Bonus = 97.163
Total team score is Total flying score + static = 146.163
|09-03-2004, 02:39 PM||#3|
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Tillsonburg, ON
Total Props: 0
Dennis, I have read it over a couple of times and I think it is an excellent starting point. It certainly appeals to me, and i think that it would be a very acceptable start.
Philosophy Department, University of Woolloomooloo
|09-03-2004, 03:17 PM||#4|
RCC Junior Contributor
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Kelowna, BC
Total Props: 0
Dennis - I believe its a really good place to start. My only thought would be that with say, the maximum 4 pilots per team it may take too long to fly off the rounds at some contests.
That said, I would certainly take a stab at team scale if we can develop the program along the lines of what you have proposed.
|09-03-2004, 06:11 PM||#5|
I am: Bruce B
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Edmonton, AB
Radio of choice:
Futaba 12Z & 18MZ
Total Props: 4
I have to say this, I would hate to be the contest director who has to administer these complex rules.
Also, there needs to be some limits set. I can see where one model with a few pilots can take first, second, and third in one contest. Would this encourage more participation?
What wrong with the existing rules being used, both flight and static, and the only change being the builder does not have to fly the model but can get a competent pilot. One model, one builder, one pilot, one entry. Simple striaght forward and no posibility of anyone trophy hunting and easy to score.
|09-03-2004, 06:31 PM||#6|
A team can only submit one combined score of all the pilots and the static to determine their placement. They cannot take more than one place.
|09-03-2004, 08:57 PM||#7|
RCC Junior Contributor
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Estevan, Sk.
Total Props: 0
I am one of the 55 views but quite frankly it's too much reading for a subject I'm not really interested in. Sorry but you asked.
|09-04-2004, 05:55 AM||#9|
Join Date: May 2004
Total Props: 0
Sounds like a great way to encourage more participation in the competition aspect of this great hobby. Certainly a good way to introduce newcomers since the intimidation factor would be greatly reduced by allowing them to be part of a team that would probably have some more experienced people there to guide and support them.
My son just started flying this year... this would be a great way to ease him into the competition atmosphere.
question: would a person be allowed to be a member of more than one team? I can see that with both positive and negative results... just a question...
Thanks for taking this initiative Dennis!! Great way to move things forward in a positive direction
As for the actual rules you've suggested... they look fine to me, except perhaps the bonus system for having more pilots... either the point system needs to be set up by the "experts" as you suggested... or forget about the bonus for having more pilots... it would leave a team of two (my son and I) at a disadvantage and the intent is to encourage us!
Steve Hayes, MAAC 51896
Sun Parlor RC Flyers Tower Field
|09-04-2004, 12:38 PM||#10|
I do not fly scale. If for some reason I wanted to start and compete I would look for something simple. The team approach seems a good idea. The suggested team structure is too complicated for me.
I would suggest a three member team.
What more do you need?
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