Getting your wings with 48" or smaller electric? - Page 2 - RCCanada - Canada Radio Controlled Hobby Forum
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Old 05-02-2005, 12:58 AM   #11
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Are we on the road to having two different types of wings certification, one for electric under a certain size and one for glow? This brings up a very good question, people are of course concerned about safety. All clubs want to do everything they can to eleminate the risk of injury. I understand that very well. Now if we as a organization of modelers are so concerned about safety then why do we only have two levels of model pilots certification? The first one being a student and the other an open pilot or a pilot with their wings. If a small electric plane does not prove someone to be a proficient pilot then what does? There are many electric planes out there with less than a 48" wing span that are far more difficult to fly then say a Kadet Senior built for only three channels but we allow students to obtain their wings with that plane. I can go out and purchase a new 30, 50, or even a 90 size heli and go to my club and try to fly it without having flown one before because I have my wings. But someone that is an excellent electric flyer cannot switch to glow without being forced into flight school? How does that make sense? If someone that can fly electric can't switch to glow then why can a student fresh out of flight school and newly "winged" have the ability to go out and purchase any plane of any size and attempt to fly it without further instruction? Can you imagine if someone with more money than brains (and we have all met someone like that) decided to take up model flying because they had a particular interest in an F16. They get their wings with the above mentioned Kadet maybe even with four channels and then go out and purchase a turbine powered F16 and attempt to fly it. Now I know that all clubs would strongly recommend that NOT be a second or even third plane but it is possible. Yet someone that can safely pilot a electric plane cannot switch to glow?

I see videos on the web of guys flying ducted fan/brushless jets at the local soccer fields. Some of these planes can push 75-100 mph. These are the guys we need to get out of the parks and into our clubs. But we are only going to allow them to have a limited license to fly? It seems to me to be somewhat unfair.

Even a GWS Beaver or a GWS Pico Tigermoth requires skill to fly. They are not the kind of plane you can hand to someone that has never flown before and expect them to fly. They require piloting skills. Granted these planes fly much slower than a glow plane and that can cause a problem when switching from small electrics to glow. But the same problem exists with a newly winged pilot that wants to go from an LT-40 to a Great Planes Little Tony or a WWII fighter, both very fast planes.

I realize I am stirring the pot, but I am not doing it just for the sake of doing it. I have been thinking about this for sometime. I know a pilot that has been flying electrics and is thinking of going to a club with the thought that maybe next year or the year after of trying glow. Just to be clear, he has not approached any clubs yet, we are not stepping on anyones toes by discussing this topic here. I am concerned how the club he joins will react to him as a pilot of airplanes and not as a "toy" pilot. Will they or should they limit him to electrics of a certain size and demand he go through their flight school when he decides to fly glow?

For myself I don't know where I land on this issue. I see both sides of this one and they both have very good points. I think this will turn out to be a good disscussion, as I think we have just touched the tip so far. I will probably take some heat for the points I have made but so be it. Judging from the poll I attached alot of people are flying small electrics. Or atleast a lot of people flying small electrics have read and replied to the
Ted LeBlanc
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Old 05-02-2005, 01:03 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by Gary Maker
Both of them understand that if the time comes that he wants to move to powered aircraft
Just to poke a little fun at you Gary, electric planes are still considered a power plane. Just a demonstration of how electric planes are viewed in our organization.
Ted LeBlanc
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Old 05-02-2005, 04:54 AM   #13
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if you have been following the r/c boards this week, you will already know that im not afraid to stir the pot ,,

the type of flying that i enjoy is either,pure gliders/ e-gliders/ or park flyer , both of which should be wellcome in any club that are truely concerned about noise,polution,etc but what i find is opposition in every way ,,heck ,i cant even get the guys in the club to give me straight rules to obey,there unable to answer the eazyest question[can i fly in the early morning with my gliders?]

slope soaring is something that i have always enjoyed and i did it for yrs in many very remote places and i was always pressured by other r/c guys to join a club becuase flying with out insurance etc is crazy!!

soooo, i join a club and after many yrs i try to conform and give this sport flying thing a try for a few years.

after having run about 20 gal. of nitro. i got bored! turned to electric gliders so i can still fly with-in the general rules set out for sport planes and from there started flying park flyers

i must admit it took about two yrs for all to forget that i once flew glow and i was soon labelled the purest or tree hugger in the crowd and from then on i was not allowed to even comment on noise issues,fuel spilliage and anything else thats glow related.

this is the kind of treatment we give our members with-in our own club as we try to prove to the public that we are willing to work with them to improve our image

this issue has gotten me so hot i have decided to return to my true love of hanggliding and fly my gliders at those sites also

my point is ,,im a classic example of how an experience pilot can be turned off buy this ignorant attitude and the very things that these people preach [quiet,cleaner ,less impacked] is not commended

im willing at this point to let all pilots challenge these claims in a last ditch effort as i remove myself from the hobby to heighten awareness in this area

i might also add that although many may consider it crazy to fly at soaring sites with out insurance and i agree [ridge soaring sites] but im beginning to think that my involvement with the prop wheeling group is far more dangerous

since my involvement with clubs i have been narrowly missed more than twice and now im dodging bullets for trying to stand up for what i believe in

is it any wonder guys are running to the park with foamies???

theres no place,like cloud base!
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Old 05-02-2005, 06:35 AM   #14
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This thread was already discussed under another header. If a pilot shows up at our field, whether a new member or not, they are asked to show proficiency prior to being allowed to fly without supervision. Whether an electric, glow, gas etc is irrelevant. They don't actually do a "wings test " but rather show control of the plane. If it lands on the runway safely with power off for the electric; that's fine.

Now if the same individual shows up and wants to learn (as your thread title here implies), then yes there are some different challenges.

1. At our club (Ajax) we use buddy boxes so the plane has to be able to attach a buddy box for students if the club requires that?
2. Are the instructors who are available, proficient to train on an electric safely; because there are some basic differences; things like more advanced throttle control, the concept of deadstick, launch and landing etc etc.
3. Does the ground crew know how to safely setup and check out an electric plane (e.g was the ESC setup correctly, is it auto-detect for low lipos, is it the right motor/esc/prop selection? Do the throws make sense? etc etc
4. Is the club willing to modify their own official wings test to accomodate the new flier when they are ready.

These are some of the questions I thought this thread would cover based on the topic at hand. Though I certainly can't speak for every club, when someone shows up at ours and says they can fly; as long as they can show control and safety, it really doesn't matter what type of plane it is.

As an fyi, the original thread from last month is at

Bob D.
Ajax RC Club
Indoor Aero-Choppers
Member of MAAC since I joined

Lighten Up, Life is waaaaaayyyy too short
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Old 05-02-2005, 07:26 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by j-coles
... unable to answer the eazyest question[can i fly in the early morning with my gliders?] ...
Sometimes what may seem to be the easiest of questions can be the most difficult. At the Ajax club, we have a few early morning glider (sailplane) enthusiasts. To our amazement, we had some noise complaints from these early mornings. It seems someone was running an engine (lawnmower, chainsaw who knows) at the same time these people were flying. Of course, when the neighbour saw a model airplane in the air they put 2 and 2 together and arrived at 5....

On a different note, I do fly electrics, so have some appreciation for them. As a word of advice (with all due respect) from one electric enthusiast to another; don't go spreading the 'blanket of doom' about field loss attributed wholly to internal combustion engines. Just because it doesn't turn your crank, you'r not going to convince us old BIG plane 'greasers' of the error of our ways and, this approach is not going to net you any new friends or contribute positively to a wider acceptance of electrics. This is especially true when some of the claims are simply not true. For example, I've witnessed some of the larger electrics with planetary gear reductions etc. and can tell you honestly that many are a fair bit louder than some of the 'greasers' I fly. And.. electrics are no less harmful to the environment. The harm just takes place further from view ... at the manufacturing and power generation plants and landfills.
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Si fractum non sit, noli id reficere - (If it ain't broke, don't fix it).
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Old 05-02-2005, 09:27 AM   #16
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Morning All

Our club does not promote or discriminate against any form of propulsion for model aircraft at our site.

Members use arm power, rubber, high starts, electric, glow, diesel, gasoline and kerosene.

We are very conscious about perceived noise levels.

We assured our immediate neighbour in 1988 when the site was setup that we would not start flying or start engines before 10h00 on Sundays and before 09h00 on other days.

We award MAAC wings to members who meet the club standard of flying.

We monitor the flying style of all guest and visitors.

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