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Old 07-13-2005, 02:22 PM   #11
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MAAC method

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Great topic.
I'm sure many instructors wonder if they are doing everything they can to help their students along.
It would be nice to be in Jim's position, several instructors of various seniority/experience to assist the wannabe instructors progress.
Many Chief Flight Instructors are the only source of instruction in their clubs or flying area.
Does everyone follow the published MAAC flight training course and guide, and of course the Wings program?
This may be sufficient to protect MAAC insurancewise, if we are all supposed to follow the guide.

My methods vary considerably depending on the aptitude and base knowledge of the student.

Does anyone have a routine they have used successfully they could share?
How about successful methods of solving a particular problem, like a student who just can't grasp the idea of flying towards themselves, even when looking over their shoulder?
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Old 07-13-2005, 03:21 PM   #12
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Re: MAAC method

Originally Posted by dhj42
My methods vary considerably depending on the aptitude and base knowledge of the student.
... and I think that is important.

I chanced to meet Clarence Ragland on the newsgroups (re.models.rc.air) several years ago. He was pushing his teaching technique (RT or Kinethetic learning). It sounded interesting and, since he was jsut across the lake (Ontario), he kindly offered to to demonstrate and teach a few of our Instructors. I have to say, I am a convert.

Worth checking out:
MAAC# 12719
Si fractum non sit, noli id reficere - (If it ain't broke, don't fix it).
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Old 07-14-2005, 12:16 PM   #13
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Ragland Technique (RT) looks like it's been a very successful method for him.
When a student has trouble with "overcontrolling" I will sometimes ditch the buddy box and cradle the right stick, as suggested by RT, with the student to give them a better feel of the required control inputs. Maybe that should still be the primary method.
How long does the "average" student take to get his "A" wings?
An hour of flight time (4-6 flights@10-15 min/flight) seems very low in my experience.
Maybe I should change what I'm doing? My "average" student would take close to 4 hrs.
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Old 07-15-2005, 11:05 PM   #14
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dhj42 wrote:" How long does the "average" student take to get his "A" wings?
An hour of flight time (4-6 flights@10-15 min/flight) seems very low in my experience.
Maybe I should change what I'm doing? My "average" student would take close to 4 hrs."

I don't believe Mr. Ragland was saying that a student got his wings after "less than one hour" of flying but that the student was flying on his own, unassisted after one hour! There is a difference!

We had a discussion a short while ago about how quickly a student could earn his wings. We had a new student, at our club just receintly who could fly the circuit, do figure eights, he did three perfect landings and then a couple of very good takeoffs.....all on his very first flight, ever! After only a half dozen flights on his second time out to the field, he asked if he could get his wings now. I told him no but offered what I considered a reasonable explaination.

When taking training for full sized aircraft, there are minimum times set before one is able to get his wings, which is 45 hours, no matter how well the student can fly he must put in the full amount of this time! There is much more to learn than just controlling the aircraft.

Its the same for an RC Pilot. I am in no way suggesting that an RC pilot spend 45 hours in training, that would be very unreasonable. However it takes time for the student to become familiar with the field proceedures, rules, regulations, field edicate etc etc. and this can only be accomplished by repetition, doing it over and over again until it becomes automatic to the student.

Case in point: This very student argued this point with me and asked why, if he can control the plane, and do it safely, can't he have his wings, and this again was on only his second trip to the field...ever? I explained the above and told him I would like to see him have a few more trips to the field.....reluctantly he agreed. On his very next trip to the field, I watched him as he got out his plane, readied it for flight, and he came to me and said he was ready to go, can he start up his plane? I asked him if he did his range check and he said ", I do that right now!" He did his range check, checked out the throws and said "Now, I'm ready to go!" I asked him.."Are you sure?" To which he smiled and said "Yep!" I then asked him what was one of the very first things I had taught him to never forget to do before ever turning on his radio system and he said "Put my pin on the frequency board!" Pause ..... "Oh $&@#!" So I again carefully explained to him the seriousness of what he had just done and it gave me opportunity to again reinforce the need for him to learn through repetition and that it does take some time!

After just over two weeks and about 7 trips to the field, I gave him his wings! But to me and in MHO, this experience shows that there is indeed more to all of this than being able to control the airplane and I know that Mr Ragland appreciates this aspect as well. His method is excellent and the student does progress very rapidly but I am positive that he makes sure that everything else is in line before giving a student his wings. How long does that take? Every student is different, so there can be no hard and fast rules that says a student has to put in two weeks or two months or even longer before he shows that full proficiency! Its something that each instructor has to determine based on their personal experience and the individual ability and progress shown by that particular student!
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Old 07-16-2005, 10:02 AM   #15
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Well put Gary,
I agree that familiarization with procedure and habit forming repetition is just as important as being able to make the plane go where you want it to. I would also rather have a student frustrated at me because they think they are ready to move on, than to let them go before I think they are ready.
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Old 07-16-2005, 10:05 PM   #16
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Instructors testing

I once flew in a club that is now defuncted and the club self appointed prez insisted that he hand picks the instructors and then they must pass his instructors test. It consisted of 3 tanks of fuel on a students trainer not your own plane with him reading off the list of manuvers. No warm up flights allowed. I was picked and at the start of the test I was feeling allitle cheeky. I quietly spoke to the owner of the trainer aside quietly for his permission. As the pres started the flight test as soon as the trainer broke ground I rolled it inverted and only rolled right side up on landing about 1 foot above wingtip ground. Did this for another 2 flights. He decided that after allowing me to wear a set of MAAC instructors wings that he could not be outdone promptly stated his 1/4 scale areobatic plane with a 1 off production Saito 300 twin and first inverted pass he pull up about 2 feet off the deck. Plane, engine, and most else was destroyed. I wasn't a member much longer after that.
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Old 07-16-2005, 10:21 PM   #17
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I don't think there is any formal training avalible through MAAC. Our clubs instructors are seasoned R/C pilots. Hence the Question, why am I an instructor??? !!!!

Rick Scott
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MAAC #30855
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Old 07-19-2005, 11:35 AM   #18
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Good thread!

I think that MAAC may have actually done the right thing on this. Leave Well Enough Alone. OR "It ain't broke, why fix it?"

The clubs that I've belonged to (Mississauga, Oakville and Aurora) all take instruction seriously and the instructors reflect this.

As one of the first postings said, they are all volunteers taking their own time to teach.

MAAC's got guidelines for what is expected of a "winged" student and what is expected of an instructor.

If you came up with a MAAC-certfied instructor program, you'd probably wind up with a lot fewer instructors and probably some p-o'ed student suing MAAC because they hadn't passed the programme or crashed their airplane.
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