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Old 04-27-2007, 09:10 AM   #91
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Hey Moo. If you are under 50, you are a cynic, if you are over 50, you are just experienced.
John Kovats

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I don't have the answers, but I have a personal relationship with the Guy that does.
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Old 04-27-2007, 12:18 PM   #92
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I have an update and possibly a solution to this whole mess.

I received a call from CPTAQ. They have already served Napierville and mariville (I think... not sure of the spelling)... with orders to shut down - their decision has been made. I've asked for copies of the results in english. I asked if the two clubs were served with the material in english also.
They said "They didn't ask."
I said "Did you offer it anyways?"
They said "But everything here is in french, if they want it in english they can have it"
- "But what if they didn't know if they could ask?"
- "Well I always ask for things to be translated if I get it in english I ask for it in french."
- "But you do that all the time, you know to ask."
- "Well they can get it if they want..."

She didn't seem to get it. If I was falling out a plane with a parachute labelled with french instructions, when would be a good time to ask for an english version? "But you can have an english version in about 2 weeks..." I love all those scenarios where the last thing you hear is "Well, you didn't ask."

Point being, we could find out what the reasons were that determined the fait of the other two clubs. According to CPTAQ, those two clubs are thrown out.

Brossair is the only one I'm aware of still undetermined.

A question I keep asking myself is:
- How did they find out the location of the clubs, are they flying beside a TV station?
- How will this be enforced? It's private land. Who will come onto private land to inspect that people are not flying over a field?
- If I'm a farmer, does that mean I can't fly my full sized plane off my land? What if I have an ultralight for recreation? What if I use my 4-wheeler for recreation? Will I get fined?
- What if I use a crop duster to dust my crops? Am I not allowed to have the plane on site?
- What if my RC plane is for agricultural reasons? Many farmers use scare-crows to keep the birds off the fields. In fact the FAA uses RC aircraft to keep birds away from airports - saving them from being sucked in to a jet engine.

I feel that the farmers in those areas should present to the CPTAQ committee the latest in agricultural technology. The RC plane!
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Old 04-27-2007, 12:32 PM   #93
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I am pleased to report The Stetson Flyers Club in Ottawa has voted and will be issuing a cheque in the amount of $500.

Over the years, many flyers from the St. Laurence area clubs have attended many events hosted at our field. This is one way that we can give back and lend a hand.

This affects us all !!


Rick Ramalho
c/o The Stetson Flyers
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Old 04-27-2007, 12:57 PM   #94
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Agreed Ratchet.

I think there is an angle on this whole thing. A flying club is not a commercial organization. Just a group of guys having fun. But what if I'm a farmer in Quebec? Does the law state that I can't fly an RC plane off my property? yes or no? If yes, can I invite some friends over?

- Does the roads that go trough the fields have to be farmable? Can we fly off the roads?
- What if there is sections of the property that can't possibly be used for agriculture?
- Things like boulders and and irregular areas that prevent farming... does that mean we can't use the land for anything at all if you can't farm it?
- Are we just to own the land, pay taxes for it but not do anything with it? Sounds like communism.
- What if we were a motorbike club, and we were all farmers. Would we be prevented from using our dirt bikes on our land?
- What specifically is the reason an RC plane cannot be flown in an agricultural area?

One way or another, I will find out what specifically is the problem. I would bet someone convinced someone else that RC planes are bad somehow. We can blow this apart with their own logic. This whole thing is starting to sound more stupid then it should.
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Old 04-27-2007, 01:49 PM   #95
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I think you're onto something there. A well orchestrated media campaign that was designed to ally other organizations against this policy could put tremendous pressure on the government. For example, the headline "ATVs, Snowmobiles and Motorbikes not allowed on farmlands!". What about approaching these other clubs and other organizations to rally against the government in a well orchestrated media campaign?

All you need is to write well designed questions to these bureaucrats and await the written responses which you then forward on with a cover letter to the affected organization.

I love to see politicians mauled by reporters over stupid policies. It's like a feeding frenzy! I especially love a long period of stunned silence after the reporter backs them into a corner and finishes them off with a retorical question such as "Well if you agree that that's the case, then why would you deny them on farmland?"

A petition from modelers may not carry a lot of weight, but a petition with the names of several large recreational associations might get their attention.

Why fight them with expensive lawyers in the courts when a smart media campaign can address it at the top - in public spotlight and their political masters? The press loves to gang up on the politicians - they're good at it and it comes naturally (quite often even if the polititican doesn't really deserve it).
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Old 04-27-2007, 02:19 PM   #96
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Martinic ... you on to something too. We can look into all the other activities you won't be able to do on farmlands. But the bottom line is we need to know what was in those letters. Essentially what is defined as not permissible and why.

Can any member of the two clubs list the reasons why they forced you to close? I know they were written in french, but can anyone do a rough translation for the important parts?

Once I have a copy of the official material, I can get it to my contacts in the media, make a few calls to some ministers, and apply some pressure avec la vice du hydraulic.
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Old 04-27-2007, 02:35 PM   #97
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You guys have wonderful ideas all together. Please, contact Jean Blaquière, who is now in charge of the special committee. Please, do not engage actions without speaking to Jean. We don't want to start 3 or 4 fights at the same time and from different peoples.

I am sure you understand.

Jean can be emailed on RC Canada , He posted on this forum. His nickname is : gelcoat. Check first post on this forum

Richard Biron
Quebec Zone Director.
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Old 04-27-2007, 04:17 PM   #98
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At Brossair, we haven't oficially been denied the waiver to fly over agricultural land, but we received their preliminary decision, which is negative.
The main reason they invoke for denying our request is (using their exact terminology) : 'we cannot allow this activity in the interest of preserving land homogeneity'
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Old 04-27-2007, 04:55 PM   #99
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Hi guys,i'm a house builder so I have to deal with zoning issues quite often. This is what I can tell you. All land is zoned for a particular use,farm land has very limited usage outside of farming.
I have asked our local zoning examiners the question regarding r/c club use on farm land and this is what I was told. " If you want to operate a "CLUB" on the property you have to get re-zoning". Here is the grey area. If you have the owners permission and co-operation you can fly on the property as his "friends" and/or "guests" providing it does not appear to be a club organized activity. Now the responsibility falls on the government agency to prove that you are an organized club and not just a bunch of frieds who fly together occasionally.
Hope this helps a little, maybe gets you out flying while your' fighting this ---- bureaucracy.
cheers,Karl Goinarov
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Old 04-27-2007, 04:59 PM   #100
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Originally Posted by rcairnut
'we cannot allow this activity in the interest of preserving land homogeneity'
And what the heck is that supposed to mean????????????????
Talk about mumble jumble eh.

I'll guess that it would refer to consistency of agricultural use throughout Canada.
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