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Old 01-25-2008, 11:35 AM   #21
Gary Maker
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I am: Gary M.
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I guess I really need to brush up on my aerodynamics. I pulled out some of my books used in my flight training and will definitely go over this information in more detail before trying to explain it to others.

Sorry if I have led anyone astray.

I do know that the pilot in question did stall his plane to which everything including the pilot figure coming loose was to blame for the crash but narry a thought to it being Pilot error!
Stoney Creek Hawks RC
MAAC No. 43659

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Current builds: 1/4 scale J3 Cub & Neiuport 17 and KMP B-25.
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"Time flies like an arrow - fruit flys like a banana." Groucho Marks
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Old 01-25-2008, 12:09 PM   #22
I am: Boolean21
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How much knowledge is needed to fly safely? This one is a real tough call. It seems for some there will never be enough. I believe like most of you that knowledge makes a better pilot. As an instructor I pass on what little knowledge I have to every student and pilot who will listen. Some show interest and try and absorb it all often returning with further questions, others their eyes glaze over and they let you know they just want to fly. I can only hope they will later acquire some of the knowledge that will make them a better flyer. I like teaching the younger generation for the most part they are not set in their ways and will absorb everything like a sponge.

This is basically an unregulated hobby and I think most would still prefer it that way. Personally I feel it is still unregulated because we donít have enough participants to warrant the attention of the bureaucrats and it would not be cost effective to charge or collect fees. Letís be careful about seeking extra regulation.

Some ideas what we can do to help educate:

1. Pass on what you know to those who will listen.

2. You cannot educate everyone donít take a refusal personally. After all you tried. If its
safety oriented and the person refuses to be reasonable inform your executive and let
them deal with it. A confrontation at the field solves little try and avoid them.

3. Never give up on anyone you might be surprised how receptive a person can be once
the initial excitement of learning to fly has worn off.

4. Most important is to lead by example. You as an experienced flyer will find that new
members will observe and copy what you do.

Any other suggestions?

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Old 01-25-2008, 12:09 PM   #23

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ok as author of this thread,i guess i should explain my intent better or take some responsibilty for its direction

first off ,some seem to have the impression that i have a problem with this and in fact i dont!!

i just feel that in general we as pilots should raise the bar a bit in terms of knowledge with or wings program or at least modify it to say with the current trends.

in actual fact most of the my fellow members miss out on a lot of great flying rather that crash! there more likely to sit out on acount of the wind being to strong or in a similiar condition they experienced turbulence so from then on they simply fly in no-wind limiting there airtime even more

i also felt that this thread might be a good topic or detour from the ongoing thread with the dreaded MAAC headline
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Old 01-25-2008, 12:17 PM   #24
Scale Freak
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For me, I belive that if you are flying an aircraft, that you really should have a basic understanding of how and why an aircraft will do what it does.
With understanding comes the ability to anticipate what the plane will do if you move the sticks a certian way, and if you get into trouble you will have an chance at a succesful recovery.
No you dont need to be able to design aircraft, or understand different airfoils, but you should know why an aircraft will stall and how to recover, what causes a spin, why you should limit aileron use after the landing flair and use rudder to keep the nose lined up. It is knowledge like this that allows you to avoid and/or limit the chance of crashes, and gives you a more professional approach to the hobby which will in turn make you (and the hobby) look better in the public eye.
Think about it, can you have more fun with understanding, and pushing your envelope at times in a controlled way, or by just trowing your plane out there and being constantly behind the curve with the airplane in controll and you running to keep it from destroying itself?
Can I retire now?
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Old 01-25-2008, 12:20 PM   #25
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Your last point, is one that our club instructors cover when we teaching the new pilots to fly.
We don't grill them, yet we demonstrate and explain- tip stalls , slow flight , banking at different speeds and altitudes. Recover procedures. Also have them flying in some very windy conditions just to get the feel what it is like . That way they have the ability to fly and land their airplanes should they get caught in the wind.I will some times demonstrate this with my hands and their model, both on the ground and in the air.

While checking these students out ,I will explain, approaches are done, the same as you would in full scale airplanes. This seems to work very well.
My biggest concern, is that the students know how to handle their plane and what to do if they should have engine problems on take off. How not to panic and safely land the plane.

I'm sure this system is not perfect, although it seems to work well. Most students do a solo flight within a 4 hour time frame or less.

The instructor who teaches them to fly, then turns them over to another senior one, for there check out and solo flight.

Some food for thought.
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Old 01-25-2008, 12:28 PM   #26

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this thread seems to have generated some interest,im wondering if it would be worth while to have a open thread concept,something relating to flight conditions only!a place where pilots can ask questions and such

safety comes with knowledge and getting the most airtime with the least amount of mishaps should be our goal no?
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Old 01-25-2008, 01:14 PM   #27
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Every student I train gets at minimum the basics in theory of flight. Once they graduate to aerobatics, an in depth knowledge of TOF is an absolute must along with being able to know exactly how to handle your plane in any and all attitudes. It's most often the unusual attitudes and slow flight envelope that will cause a crash with lack of knowledge, especially in the smaller models.
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Old 01-25-2008, 03:30 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by Propworn
How much knowledge is needed to fly safely?
Skipping equipment maintenance and operations to stay on the topic of this thread, I would say a minimum would be a basic understanding of aerodynamics to point of understanding what a stall is and how to avoid one, also enough about vectors to comprehend common illusions and avoid misconceptions such as the "dreaded downwind turn".
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Si fractum non sit, noli id reficere - (If it ain't broke, don't fix it).
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Old 01-25-2008, 04:13 PM   #29

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Originally Posted by JimMcIntyre
Originally Posted by Propworn
How much knowledge is needed to fly safely?
Skipping equipment maintenance and operations to stay on the topic of this thread, I would say a minimum would be a basic understanding of aerodynamics to point of understanding what a stall is and how to avoid one, also enough about vectors to comprehend common illusions and avoid misconceptions such as the "dreaded downwind turn".

oh no ,,the dreaded downwind turn ,,sure to top the thread count!! hehe im wondering if you also noticed mr makers comment on that topic?

sorry, i couldnt resist but jim has a good way with words and yes there are some great misconceptions with rc in realation to the ground
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Old 01-25-2008, 04:23 PM   #30
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Brings back a memory from 3 years ago in Tillsonburg. It was real windy on the Saturday afternoon. A guy had a trainer up, a nextar or something and he had it in a Harrier/stall situation and it was just staying in one place. To make it interesting he threw in a few rolls and of course it started flying backwards/downwind across the field, pointed into the wind.

I know the crowd was surprised, but I was amazed at the number of pilots that couldn't quite understand what was going on.

Sure, he knew what he was doing, but it's all about relavence isn't it.
John Kovats

aka Johnny Versatile

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I don't have the answers, but I have a personal relationship with the Guy that does.
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