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Old 06-25-2009, 09:11 PM   #41
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Re: Why MAAC

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Originally Posted by Tyler P View Post
I don't think Byrocat was intending his reply to be an attack. He was just comparing the rules of Transport Canada to the MAAC guidelines.

Dash, I felt the same way as you about trying to get my wings. I was in the exact same situation, where I had been flying on my own, and did feel that the regulations seemed ----. However, when you're flying with other pilots, things can happen. Nobody's perfect.

As for the insurance issue, Byrocat is 100% correct. It is extremely hard to get coverage for such a specialized and potentially risky hobby.
Tyler P: Thank you, bit it DID seem like a personal attack. Trust me the rules of Transport Canada, governing the safe transports of our families and love ones, as compared to the flying of our R/C planes, are COMPLETELY different.
and I, as well as ALL my collegues, believe SAFETY is THE MOST IMPORTANT THING. This is a VERY. VERY PERSONAL attack. I take my career and my responsibility to my passengers VERY VERY seriously. and I will allow NO ONE to question that.
Insurance coverage may be a problem, but let's all get together and get BETTER coverage, instead of singling out one (or more) persons.

my 2c

Last edited by dash8; 06-25-2009 at 09:15 PM.
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Old 06-25-2009, 09:12 PM   #42
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Re: Why MAAC

... which is why will likely see a decline in membership in MAAC, the hobby is fragile, and insurance was one of the main selling points for MAAC. Because I find the same attitudes as Dash 8 in my area (----, unwelcoming, demanding 3 months of instruction) I will continue to fly on a farm field, and may yet allow my MAAC membership to lapse after some decades of involvement. My "L" after my MAAC number was hard won, and I contributed what I could; I do wish some of the "----" club leaders could say the same thing, but I hold no hope for them to see them abandoning their positions of power to actually work to better the hobby. That may sound mean, but around here, it fits very well.

This hobby has been good for me, and for the communities I lived in, and taught building and flying in. I always felt that I owed the hobby a lot, and did my best to promote it, unlike some clubs I have contacted.

Now that I am no longer insured through MAAC, I will continue to fly, but my instruction days are over, and, by association, my contribution to the hobby. What other options are there?
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Old 06-25-2009, 09:40 PM   #43
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Re: Why MAAC


It's not MAAC or the clubs that are so ----. Only one insurance company is willing to provide MAAC and its clubs insurance and it calls the tune.
We have no choice in the matter, if the insurer cancels the policy with MAAC we all disappear overnight.
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Old 06-25-2009, 10:21 PM   #44
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Re: Why MAAC

I have a hard time buying the fact that there is only 1 company that will provide insurance. It's plain and simple liability insurance and virtually all insurance companies offer liability insurance.

Another club close to me has their own insurance to cover their property (buildings) but I am positive (when I was on the exec) that it includes liability as well.

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Old 06-26-2009, 12:03 AM   #45
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Re: Why MAAC

I normally try to stay out of these discussions typically because there is always someone who looks at another's views, and then takes them personally, and then attacks the person for expressing their views. I'm hoping that I can express my views, and have an open discussion without offending anyone.

First, I have to question why did MAAC get involved with insurance in the first place?

I joined MAAC to have contact with other modellers, and to enjoy the comradeship of other modellers - not to have insurance. If MAAC got into insurance to get us reasonable insurance rates, I think we have to question what it has now come to and and what is the likelyhood of collecting.

Currently it seems that most clubs are pushing us to join MAAC for the insurance, instead, perhaps MAAC needs to get back into promoting our hobby for the average flyer.

If we must have MAAC insurance, why isn't it based on risk and potential damage - similar to car insurance. In my opinion, the more speed a plane has, the more weight, and the larger engines, have more potential to cause more damage than a smaller plane and therefore these pilots should pay a slightly higher premium - that's my thoughts anyways.

From what I'm reading regarding MAAC insurance and its limitations, it may be difficult us to collect anyway. I've flown at many fields and if just one thing is out of place using the current safety guidelines (and at many fields there is "just one thing" out of place) , I'm certain our insurance company will find a way of not paying a claim there, this could be a problem with a sign, a pilot station, a fence location, or even missing a procedure.

If MAAC wants to expand their membership base, they have to start finding ways of including insurance for the individual flyer who lives in the country. People who fly in the country, or on there own property or on another's (with permission) should be covered for they will be our potential future members. It would be interesting to find out how many of these isolated flyers have ever made a MAAC claim, I would think their claims would be very low and therefore wonder why aren't they covered? We need to start encouraging these people to join MAAC if we want MAAC to grow - not alienate them. The only other thing MAAC offers them is the magazine and this was once the major source for model information in Canada - this website now has more information than the magazine and promotes better comradeship between modellers. MAAC must create a better website for modellers to share information if it expects to keep its membership.

Second. Another point that was raised is the recognition of pilots from other clubs. MAAC has a habit of laying in place "guidelines" and not "rules". These "guidelines" are from our national organization, and therefore you would think they would be nationally recognised anywhere in Canada. In my opinion, all clubs that belong to MAAC should recognize anyone, anywhere who has passed a MAAC wings test, if they don't recognize the national wings guidelines, they are acting as an individual club and not one belonging to a national organization. If MAAC puts in place training "guidelines", and they are followed, and the instructor issues "wings" (that they also purchased from MAAC) , why are these pilots required to pass another MAAC wings test at another field? I can see them being asked the first time at the field to be "checked out" to see if they meet club standards, and if they do, why should they have to do the full wings course. In fact, when you think about it, no one is required to pass a test if they go to a "Fun Fly" or "Contest". So why do the same clubs require an individual who is a qualified MAAC pilot to go through their full wings program to become flying members. They allow these same pilots to fly at their fun flys and competitions without going through any test - how come?

Third. I have asked MAAC in the past to consider tacking on a letters after our MAAC numbers. An example would be "P" for pilot, "I" for instructor, "T" for training and whatever else you can think of. If these letters were added to our number, it would assist MAAC to know its members qualifications. The letters would also assist club events when accepting other pilots from outside clubs to their events to know who are qualified "P" pilots. It would also assist MAAC by easily being able to run a computer analysis to identify the number, with qualifications, of the flyers in different areas of the country. This would allow such things as membership drives in different areas, or the creation of custom upgrade programs as needed in different areas. When I proposed this to MAAC, I was told it would be too much work to add the letter. However, when our membership cards are issued, I can't see it being a to big a task - especially if the membership form had boxes to check off such as "Pilot", "Pilot in training", "Instructor" etc. The letter(s) would then simply be tacked on to the member's number.

Fourth. Any organization I have ever belonged to that requires "certification", for flying, driving, scuba diving etc. This requires the instructors to take a course and they are not "appointed" as in our hobby. I think MAAC should start thinking about running a certification course for instructors, similar to other organizations. This could be done in several ways, but I would prefer a MAAC course set up by the MAAC BOD's. In the beginning this would have to be done by the regional MAAC representative, and "Master" instructors picked. The MAAC course would cost approximately $50 per instructor (perhaps paid for by the club) , the candidates would be put up at the homes of local club members, and those who pass would get an "instructor certification" card and would be qualified to give MAAC wings. For the first year, I would think we would have to "grandfather" in current instructors and work from there.

Fifth. I think we all know the MAAC magazine needs improvement. I have some very old magazines from MAAC and they have lots of useful information from flying tips, construction articles, engine tuning and even making springs. I always looked forward to reading them. Now, the latest magazines asks each regions representative to give a short blurb on their area - some are great, and some are not so great and occaisionally we have flying or building articles - I've talked to people who only read the hobby shop ads in the magazine.

If you have ever put together publications, you know that the editor has to be proactive and creative in getting information that is interesting to the readers. The format of our magazine has become very repetative and is not very interesting to the average modeller, and I think the editor needs to know this. Yes, we as members, need people to step up to the plate to write articles, but the editor also needs to be creative and create such things as a "hints and tips" section. I would also like to see a listing of all the MAAC clubs in the magazine so new members can find a club in their area (I can just hear it now - too much work). I'd also like to ask, do members get anything for writing articles? What incentive do they have to write? I think we should be offering incentives for people who send articles and "stuff" to the magazine. Example, how about a MAAC hat or "T" shirt for a hint or tip. A gift certificate from a hobby shop, or next year's MAAC membership for an article. These things would encourage people to more involved in the magazine.

I expect someone will comment that all these things take time, and then - who has the time to do it? My opinion is that if you take a position, you must have known what was involved, and if you offered to do a job, then do it, and do it right. Many of us have taken on a position within this hobby and worked night and day to help our fellow modellers, and none of us have expected anything in return - the MAAC BOD's comes to mind, think of the hours they work.

Again, the above are just opinions, and my father once told me to never make a complaint (opinion in this case) with out offering at least one solution. I hope I have done that.

Now that I finished, lets discuss it and get your views and suggestions - if yours are better than mine, I'll change.

Please excuse any typos - its late!

Thanks for listening (reading).



Last edited by Wayne MIller; 06-26-2009 at 12:10 AM. Reason: Typos
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Old 06-26-2009, 01:29 AM   #46
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Re: Why MAAC

Poor guy just asked a simple question!
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Old 06-26-2009, 05:49 AM   #47
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Re: Why MAAC

I was thinking same thing lol

Originally Posted by Hughes500E View Post
Poor guy just asked a simple question!
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Old 06-26-2009, 08:15 AM   #48
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Re: Why MAAC

I asked the question, little did I know it would cause such an up-roar!
I have the info I need, let's close the thread because it has become counter productive.

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Old 06-26-2009, 08:20 AM   #49
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Re: Why MAAC

Any thread that has the word MAAC becomes a SH1TSHOW!!! It never fails. I just quit reading.

I keep having the same mechanical problem. I've got a loose nut on the transmitter!

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Old 06-26-2009, 11:06 AM   #50
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Re: Why MAAC

Simple question: "gee, is that house on fire?" Simple answer: "yes, it is."

Wayne brings up some interesting points (complicated answer: "Call 911!") regarding solutions, I envy your logical mind at such a late hour.

I am listening to a debate about the insuring of Search & Rescue volunteers, and who should pay for it. Seems to me that if an organisation is big enough, it should be able to generate its own insurance fund....... somehow.... I have no clear idea on how to do that, but there is a dark side to this, human greed. People sue for millions because they know there is a bottomless pocket there: if they find out that the protection for them is very finite, they often back off. Besides, we are NOT the US, where medical coverage is so cutthroat; under nearly all circumstances, hospital and medical expenses are covered.

Second, why on earth are people suing because their airplane was damaged by someone else?? That is a dumb idea in every respect.

Third, why would I have to go through a Wings program, complete with the training time, just to do what I do? Is there going to be a Wings program for sailplanes? or electrics? or rubber freeflight? My radio is 4 channel, and I fly 20 oz electrics: where is my dollar value for MAAC insurance, compared to a guy that is flying a pattern plane? The points about auto insurance come up here: my insurance for my old Volvo is far, far less than the insurance for my new Toyota, and I know that I can do a lot more damage (3rd party stuff) with the Volvo.

(wrings hands) What to do? What to do? I do know that George's answer (quit reading) isn't it...
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