Detailing a DeHavilland Beaver - Page 9 - RCCanada - Canada Radio Controlled Hobby Forum
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Old 09-04-2010, 08:45 PM   #81
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Re: Detailing a DeHavilland Beaver - Part 20


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Hinging Part 2:

In response to some questions on hinging, here is a drawing of the flap hinges, and the components that I used. (Also refer to Part 6)
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Old 09-07-2010, 04:04 PM   #82
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Re: Detailing a DeHavilland Beaver - Wing incidence - Part 21

See the post of 09-04-10

According to MR Aerodesign, the wing incidence should be + 0.5 degrees, and the stab incidence 0 degrees with the bottom of the fuselage level.

After careful checks, and double checks, I find the wing set at +0.7 degrees and the stab at -1.0 degrees giving a decolage of 1.7 degrees, although I doubt that I can measure any closer than +/- 1/2 degree with my Robarts incidence meter.
This is close enough for me, and is on the safe side, particularly since the full scale Beaver had a decolage of 2 degrees!

As a small aside, I have been following a tip from my friend Richard, and using a carpenters "Self-Levelling" laser level from Black and Decker. It has been great for setting up and squaring assemblies such as the fuselage, and was useful in setting the stab parallel to the wing, and was useful again in double checking the wing setup. Using a little trigonometry, for an incidence angle of +0.5 degrees, giving a tan = 0.0087, for a chord of 11.25", the trailing edge should be 11.25*0.0087= 0.0982" or about 3/32" below the centre of the leading edge. This can be checked by setting the plane of the laser level just above the wing, and then measuring down at the leading and trailing edges.
Using the laser level was a slower process, but gave essentially the same results as the incidence meter, giving me more confidence in the accuracy.

Caygeon Flyer


Quote:
Originally Posted by Caygeon Flyer View Post
For those interested, this is a response to a PM.

I had not checked my model yet for incidence.
The data that I have indicates that the Full Scale Beaver has 0 degrees wing incidence, and -2 degrees on the stab. I will post a reference drawing on the forum.

The datum line on the MRAerodesign side-view drawing is near the front, just above the note "1 degree down thrust" and the line through the engine centreline. The datum is parallel to the bottom of the fuselage at the cabin.

The full scale Beaver measurements are with the cabin floor level - which is parallel to the bottom of the fuse.

The middle stringer is on a different angle.
Assuming that the plans are correct, and based on the fuse bottom being the level datum, I measure on the plans a wing incidence of about + 1 degree, and a stab incidence of 0 degrees.

A quick check of my model (which is not fully assembled yet) indicates that it is about the same settings.

So it looks like your idea is correct. However, I suggest that you contact MR Aerodesign for their advice. I have found Martin to be quite helpful, and his prototype flew well.

For added information -- I have been flying a similar size Beaver model from the Unionville kit for a number of years. It is set up with +2.8 degrees on the wing and 0 on the stabilizer.

Caygeon Flyer
Quote:
I have been following your MRAerodesign build- beautiful job. I am also building one and at stage of attaching tail stab. I cannot see on the plans any incidence references.
The wing is fixed as per tube and round peg. So sitting the tail on "0" I get -1 on wing. i.e. Tail is just resting on a ply cradle.
I should think I need to alter tail to get at least +1on wing.
As far as I can tell the middle stringer on the fuselage side is the datum line, which also gives me the same. So if I make the tail "0" with datum line on fuselage I should get +1 on wing.
Is this what you have ???
Thanks for help
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Old 09-07-2010, 08:25 PM   #83
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Re: Detailing a DeHavilland Beaver - Part 22

Wing Detailing:

The wing panels are now complete and detailing is in progress. The panel lines and reinforcing plates were done with the conventional technique of masking tape and spray primer.

I used two layers of tape to get the thickness right, and sprayed with three coats of Plasti-Kote spot filler and primer. Then a light sanding on the edge of the tape before removing it.

All set now for the rivets!
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Old 09-08-2010, 09:10 AM   #84
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Re: Detailing a DeHavilland Beaver - Part 23

Wing Box:

I have taken some time out over the last few months to build a wing box to store and transport the model parts. I was starting to get some issues with hanger rash!
The box is modelled after the ones used by the Precision Aerobatics guys. Mine will hold the two wings, wing tube, struts, scale prop, spare props, and some spare parts. The box is a pine frame with 1/8 birch ply sheet. The birch ply comes in 5 foot square pieces, so I only needed one, whereas I would have needed two 4 x 8 sheets to cover the 52 length.
The foam cushioning is high density upholstery foam. The foam cuts nicely with an electric carving knife, or a hot wire, but I mostly used my band saw. It is hard to tell from the pictures, but the wings are mounted with the leading edge lower than the trailing edge, to provide clearance for the hinges, while minimizing the box depth.

I also needed the time to work out a glitch in another area that I will report about soon.
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Old 09-08-2010, 09:47 AM   #85
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Re: Detailing a DeHavilland Beaver

Hello Peter: As usual, nice job on the wing details,please show us how you intend to do the rivets!
The wing box looks great too! Like a piece of furniture! Outstanding work!
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Old 09-09-2010, 05:26 AM   #86
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Re: Detailing a DeHavilland Beaver

Very nice
your wings transport box Peter.

I also will have to do one for the hole Bomber to be transport next year.
Thanks for the sharing Bud!
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Old 10-12-2010, 10:24 AM   #87
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Re: Detailing a DeHavilland Beaver - Part 19

Quote:
Originally Posted by Caygeon Flyer View Post
Control Throws

The Control throws were not included on the kit plans. I have been a believer that a good starting point for control throws should be the throws used on the full size aircraft.

At first, these were hard to find, but with enough rooting around . I found them. Actually I got some good help from the Beaver Chat room on Yahoo, in the form of a Rigging Diagram used by the British military. This helped to make sense of the information that I found in the FAA Type Certificate and the STC for a Beaver modification.

Here is the data.

Control Throws
Ailerons Up 13.00 deg (corrected from 18 deg Sept 12)
Ailerons Down 11.00 deg
Aileron Droop with full flap 15.00 deg
Elevator Up 28.00 deg
Elevator Down 20.00 deg
Rudder Right 25.00 deg
Rudder left 25.00 deg
Flap Setting at inboard hinge -- 0 - Cruise 0.00 deg
Flap Setting at inboard hinge -- 15 - Climb 15.00 deg
Flap Setting at inboard hinge -- 35 - Take Off 35.00 deg
Flap Setting at inboard hinge -- 50 - Landing 50.00 deg
Flap Setting at inboard hinge -- 58 - Full 58.00 deg

Ailerons Up at tip 4.20 In
Ailerons Down at tip 2.50 In
Aileron Droop at tip with full flap 3.50 In
Elevator Up at 8" from aircraft CL 10.90 In
Elevator Down at 8" from aircraft CL 7.60 In
Rudder Right at bottom 11.40 In
Rudder left at bottom 11.40 In
Flap Setting TE at inboard hinge -- 0 - Cruise 0.00 In
Flap Setting TE at inboard hinge -- 15 - Climb 3.50 In
Flap Setting TE at inboard hinge -- 35 - Take Off .....
Flap Setting TE at inboard hinge -- 50 - Landing .....
Flap Setting TE at inboard hinge -- 58 - Full 12.30 In

Note that for a Mark III Turbo Beaver, down elevator is 23 degrees.


Caygeon Flyer
Just FYI; I also had the same thoughts on my UH 8' build in trying to get scale flap and aileron movement. My build here: http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/show...ows#post688398 With the fact I don't have a lot of scale experience, I found at landing speeds with the flaps over about 30 degrees the ailerons were nearly ineffective however the rudder is pretty effective. My first few flights were pretty scary (for me) especially considering how tight a field I was flying out of. My build goal was for scale flying, but not static scale. I also intended to tow sailplanes and abandon pure scale deflection of the control surfaces - opting for controls throws I found comfortable to fly. I ended up with quite a bit of rudder mix and added some available aileron throw I had mixed out. For such a great scale build as yours, I imagine you will have far less need for the responsiveness I wanted and was used to. I suspect the full size DHC2 has more responsiveness for the same throws due to the compressibility of air not being scalable.
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Old 10-13-2010, 08:57 PM   #88
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Re: Detailing a DeHavilland Beaver

Hi Maxadventure:
Just took a few(?) minutes to review your build thread. You have a great looking model there.
The Beaver that I have been flying for a number of years is the 8' Unionville one. Mine is built strictly according to the plans, with none-scale hinging. It weights 10 lbs. Lost of power with and OS 91 F'S.
I liked a couple of your ideas - like the substitution of stainless steel on the struts. My brass ones started cracking after about 150 flights. Your method of making the corrugations is great, but obviously takes a delicate touch, not only to cut them, but to get them installed at the right spacing and parallel.

Mu Unionville Beaver works well with about 40 degrees of flaps, and I have not noticed an aileron problem when the flaps are down, but I do not do any really tight manoeuvring in that situation.

As far as the responsiveness of the full scale, I do not think that they are that much better. I was flying in a float equipped one on the west coast last fall, and the pilot came in to land crosswind between two islands. I noticed that he had the yoke at full throw trying to keep the wings level in the gusts!!. However there are some great videos of a full scale Beaver doing Top Dressing in New Zealand, and he was really pulling the aircraft into tight turns, and doing what looked like stall turns.


How do your brakes work? AS good as you hoped?

Keep up the good work.

Caygeon Flyer.
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Old 07-06-2011, 11:37 AM   #89
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Re: Detailing a DeHavilland Beaver

Quote:
Originally Posted by Caygeon Flyer View Post
Hi Maxadventure:
Just took a few(?) minutes to review your build thread. You have a great looking model there.....
I liked a couple of your ideas - like the substitution of stainless steel on the struts. My brass ones started cracking after about 150 flights. Your method of making the corrugations is great, but obviously takes a delicate touch, not only to cut them, but to get them installed at the right spacing and parallel.
.
Thanks! - my detailing was really for my own amusement and certainly no up to par with competition dealing as yours. I'm sure anyone looking will see issues.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Caygeon Flyer View Post
Mu Unionville Beaver works well with about 40 degrees of flaps, and I have not noticed an aileron problem when the flaps are down, but I do not do any really tight manoeuvring in that situation.

As far as the responsiveness of the full scale, I do not think that they are that much better. I was flying in a float equipped one on the west coast last fall, and the pilot came in to land crosswind between two islands. I noticed that he had the yoke at full throw trying to keep the wings level in the gusts!!. However there are some great videos of a full scale Beaver doing Top Dressing in New Zealand, and he was really pulling the aircraft into tight turns, and doing what looked like stall turns.


How do your brakes work? AS good as you hoped?

Keep up the good work.

Caygeon Flyer.
The brake friction liners I've come up with all glaze right away, so they work for a bit, but before I'm even done taxing they're not functioning well. I have enough flights to prove I don't even need them to land in tight spaces, the plane slows fantastic to land, and comes to a stop quickly. I've managed to take of in about 2-3 meteres and my second vid shows how quickly I can bring it to a stop, no brakes: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Csw5EBGIjH8
I've not had much time for any R/C since last summer, hoping to get things rolling again, just now getting more windows in, adding the wing/stab fences.

What happened here to this thread and your awesome build? I'm totally inspired to build a box for my wings now - surely your beaver is done? I'd love to see photos of the results!
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Old 09-22-2011, 04:36 PM   #90
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Thumbs up Re: Detailing a DeHavilland Beaver

Excellent job! Thanks for sharing the process with us.
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