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-   -   First SAM/Old Timer build in years.. (https://www.rccanada.ca/rccforum/showthread.php?t=573121)

AJCoholic 12-02-2018 01:53 PM

First SAM/Old Timer build in years..
 
2 Attachment(s)
I love classic models - built several SAM type RC assist planes over the years, from the first playboy I scratch built around 1990. Love them!

I havenít built one in many years though. I think I picked up this Flair Junior 60 in about 2010 from AJ Hobbies in Toronto. I planned to put one of the two Saito 50th anniversary gold plated .30ís in it. I think this will be a nice, relaxing build and flyer as well. Plus should look awesome with the bling bling up front, lol.

AJCoholic 12-02-2018 01:58 PM

Re: First SAM/Old Timer build in years..
 
2 Attachment(s)
https://www.rccanada.ca/rccforum/att...ine=1543780717

https://www.rccanada.ca/rccforum/att...ine=1543780717

williame3590 12-02-2018 04:04 PM

Re: First SAM/Old Timer build in years..
 
Please, please no plastic film!!!!!! Love the project Andrew.





Bill

AJCoholic 12-02-2018 04:43 PM

Re: First SAM/Old Timer build in years..
 
What do you suggest? Iím a Monokote kindaí guy lol. I like transparent covering on these types of airframes.

Iíd use Solartex if I could find some though.

Jon. 12-02-2018 07:53 PM

I have some solartex if you are interested... full roll of red, full roll of silver, part roll of black and I think some white...

NDW 12-02-2018 07:57 PM

Re: First SAM/Old Timer build in years..
 
Silk and dope would look good and nostalgic as well

D.

AJCoholic 12-02-2018 08:54 PM

Re: First SAM/Old Timer build in years..
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jon. (Post 3666783)
I have some solartex if you are interested... full roll of red, full roll of silver, part roll of black and I think some white...

Iíd totally be interested to purchase that if you are interested in selling. I know since it became unavailable guys are hanging on to it.. but let me know if you want to sell. Iíd of course pay for shipping to me in Northern ON.

AJCoholic 12-02-2018 08:56 PM

Re: First SAM/Old Timer build in years..
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by NDW (Post 3666787)
Silk and dope would look good and nostalgic as well

D.

I have done some fabric and dope years ago (ironically before I could afford iron on films like Monokote as a young teen in the early 80s) on control line planes. I had a bunch of Silk from K&S but ended up selling it all 16 or 18 years ago never really thinking Iíd want to use it.

Jon. 12-02-2018 09:03 PM

Will bundle it all up tomorrow and see exactly what I have left... than we can figure out a price... do you have any monokote or ultracote? we could maybe make a trade?

AJCoholic 12-02-2018 09:35 PM

Re: First SAM/Old Timer build in years..
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jon. (Post 3666801)
Will bundle it all up tomorrow and see exactly what I have left... than we can figure out a price... do you have any monokote or ultracote? we could maybe make a trade?

I have lots of Monokote. About 25 rolls. Some Ultracote but not nearly as much.. maybe 3 or 4 rolls but I have to check.

My email is [email protected] if you want to use that vs pmís.

Jon. 12-04-2018 08:59 PM

3 Attachment(s)
So I have a mix of SolarTex and GlossTex. Here’s the list!

28” SolarTex white
45” SolarTex red
24” GlossTex black
60” GlossTex Silver
79” GlossTex red

all great shape aside from the white.. it’s either yellowed or I’d guess it’s a cream colour. It’s also a little creased do to no tube.. all the other covering is in great shape!

Jon. 12-04-2018 09:09 PM

Let me know how many rolls of monocote this is worth to you and we can make a trade. Thanks!

AJCoholic 12-05-2018 09:21 PM

Re: First SAM/Old Timer build in years..
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jon. (Post 3667397)
Let me know how many rolls of monocote this is worth to you and we can make a trade. Thanks!

Whatís the difference between solar Tex and gloss Tex?

Jon. 12-06-2018 02:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AJCoholic (Post 3667551)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jon. (Post 3667397)
Let me know how many rolls of monocote this is worth to you and we can make a trade. Thanks!

What’s the difference between solar Tex and gloss Tex?

just the finish.. it’s the same company, just gloss finish. Still fabric.

AJCoholic 12-06-2018 09:51 AM

Re: First SAM/Old Timer build in years..
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jon. (Post 3667397)
Let me know how many rolls of monocote this is worth to you and we can make a trade. Thanks!

So thatís one full roll and one almost full and the rest pcs?

WOuld two brand new rolls of Monokote work for you?

Jon. 12-06-2018 11:34 AM

Works for me! Pm me colours and your shipping deals and I’ll ship em out!

NEW222 12-06-2018 12:33 PM

Re: First SAM/Old Timer build in years..
 
That will be a nice looing plane. But one question. Are you really going to run that nice gold plated engine in it? If so, I think that will be the first time I seen a nice engine like that actually being flown.

AJCoholic 12-06-2018 12:46 PM

Re: First SAM/Old Timer build in years..
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by NEW222 (Post 3667703)
That will be a nice looing plane. But one question. Are you really going to run that nice gold plated engine in it? If so, I think that will be the first time I seen a nice engine like that actually being flown.

Hell yeah!!

:)

NEW222 12-06-2018 05:43 PM

Re: First SAM/Old Timer build in years..
 
I'm lovin' it!

williame3590 05-18-2020 05:50 PM

Re: First SAM/Old Timer build in years..
 
Did you ever finish this build Andrew?

Bill

AJCoholic 05-18-2020 06:06 PM

Re: First SAM/Old Timer build in years..
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by williame3590 (Post 3769215)
Did you ever finish this build Andrew?

Bill

No I got side tracked. I was hoping this past winter. However I may start working on it again after I get my AMR-Trainer 50 finished up!

AJCoholic 12-05-2020 08:21 AM

Re: First SAM/Old Timer build in years..
 
Update.... well, two years since I started framing this thing up. Thats sad! But, life gets in the way.

I ended up selling both my gold Saitos, to help out my buddy purchase some rc gear. Then I bought a Saito 40, but I recently got my hands on a used Saito gold 30, so were back on track.

Now that I have a place at home (heated garage with plenty of workspace) to work on the models, it will become easier to do things.

Im going to try and get this built for the spring.

Also, I have an old Kraft 3 channel radio that was converted to Spektrum 2.4gHz, on its way that I plan to use in this plane. Sweet!

williame3590 12-05-2020 04:14 PM

Re: First SAM/Old Timer build in years..
 
Glad to hear Andrew, it will be a great combo.

I'm currently restoring a real old scratch built Brooklyn Dodger, It's a mess but well underway with things. Best way ever to eliminate stress.
No room for a 4stroke on this one, nose is way too short. Just installing a plain jane 2 cycle. Thunder Tigre 40. It will be fine.

Bill

AJCoholic 12-05-2020 06:44 PM

Re: First SAM/Old Timer build in years..
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by williame3590 (Post 3812611)
Glad to hear Andrew, it will be a great combo.

I'm currently restoring a real old scratch built Brooklyn Dodger, It's a mess but well underway with things. Best way ever to eliminate stress.
No room for a 4stroke on this one, nose is way too short. Just installing a plain jane 2 cycle. Thunder Tigre 40. It will be fine.

Bill

A classic, I have John Ponds' drawings for the Dodger. Sweet!

cicopo 12-08-2020 07:28 AM

Re: First SAM/Old Timer build in years..
 
I have to ask what does SAM stand for? I have also just started an old timer build & will have a hard time deciding on what to use for covering. I'd be happy to go with silk & dope which I had used for many years in my pre adult days. On the other hand it seems traditional to show off the bones in what I'm using to stay (I hope) sane while stuck at home this winter. I will be doing a photo build album once there's enough progress.
It's the Goldberg Valkyrie & it will be built as per the original style without CNC or laser cut parts but I will be adding some extra strength here & there so it can carry the extra weight of RC gear. Power will be electric.

AJCoholic 12-08-2020 07:31 AM

Re: First SAM/Old Timer build in years..
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by cicopo (Post 3813391)
I have to ask what does SAM stand for? I have also just started an old timer build & will have a hard time deciding on what to use for covering. I'd be happy to go with silk & dope which I had used for many years in my pre adult days. On the other hand it seems traditional to show off the bones in what I'm using to stay (I hope) sane while stuck at home this winter. I will be doing a photo build album once there's enough progress.
It's the Goldberg Valkyrie & it will be built as per the original style without CNC or laser cut parts but I will be adding some extra strength here & there so it can carry the extra weight of RC gear. Power will be electric.

Society of Antique Modellers. They govern the legal planes for certain eras etc. And engines as well.

williame3590 12-08-2020 07:38 AM

Re: First SAM/Old Timer build in years..
 
That's a big project Larry. Keep us posted please.

Bill

cicopo 12-08-2020 08:12 AM

Re: First SAM/Old Timer build in years..
 
Thanks AJ & Bill I will keep you posted. I've been thinking of building one for a few years & with nothing else to do this winter I took the plunge. I downloaded the plans from Outerzone & started printing them BUT the 2 pages are at a different scale to each other. Took a while but I solved the difference & re printed them, bought most of the materials & have started making ribs & the trailing edges for the wings. Like AJ I've got a heated garage to work in plus I still have my darkroom for the smaller stuff. I have also joined the Valkyrie Builders Group on Facebook which looks like a very important part of this. Lots of good info there as well as some BEAUTIFUL photos of finished projects.

On another old timer note a member of the build group posted this video yesterday of a similar Goldberg design which has now been flown.

williame3590 12-08-2020 12:12 PM

Re: First SAM/Old Timer build in years..
 
That's what the true sense of modeling is Larry. Google Franny's Valkyrie build and flight. She did a hell of a job of hers and I think it was her first ever build.

Bill

cicopo 12-16-2020 03:48 PM

Re: First SAM/Old Timer build in years..
 
4 Attachment(s)
Well although I will do a build thread of some kind once I get some real progress I have completed building the truss style ribs for 1 wing. Because I plan on building a 2 piece wing & have been warned about wing failures when built too light for RC use the first 3 ribs of each wing will be 3/32 ply & # 4 will be from 1/8 balsa. A built a jig to pre shape my upper & lower strip before cutting them to 1/8" wide & have determined I want hard balsa for all the ribs. I hadn't planned on that & might need to find more before getting a full second set built.
Either way I've got lots of other parts to cut out as well as 1/8 X 1/8 spars to lengthen.

michaely 12-20-2020 11:47 AM

Re: First SAM/Old Timer build in years..
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by cicopo (Post 3815561)
Well although I will do a build thread of some kind once I get some real progress I have completed building the truss style ribs for 1 wing. Because I plan on building a 2 piece wing & have been warned about wing failures when built too light for RC use the first 3 ribs of each wing will be 3/32 ply & # 4 will be from 1/8 balsa. A built a jig to pre shape my upper & lower strip before cutting them to 1/8" wide & have determined I want hard balsa for all the ribs. I hadn't planned on that & might need to find more before getting a full second set built.
Either way I've got lots of other parts to cut out as well as 1/8 X 1/8 spars to lengthen.

Bravo on tackling the labour intensive build of Carl Goldberg Valkyrie and truss style ribs of varying chords......

..... but I am skeptical about the need to reinforce the wing structure with the first three ribs of each panel being 3/32" plywood and #4 being 1/8" (solid?) balsa...... the structural loads on wings are primarily spanwise - hence the need for strong spars/doublers on the inboard spars, etc. ......... while pretty much all the rib outlines are called upon is to maintain the airfoil shape.... even with quarter scale powered models, I rarely see the use of any plywood rib reinforcement apart from some 1/16" facing on root rib of a wing panel to mitigate hanger rash and some ply facing on part of the ribs adjacent to the landing gear to take landing shocks.

The plans for the 118" span Valkyrie on Outerzone show all truss style ribs, on the inboard end there is some diagonal stick bracing between ribs and the two most inboard ribs are sheeted in 1/16" .... that's it

Take a look over at rcgroups on Don Stackhouse's thinking on his company's Chrysalis electric sailplane...... the wing has an "open structure" - no leading or trailing edge sheeting and the non-spanwise rigidity is maintained by the use of plastic covering with good tensile strength and som diagonal stick bracing between the ribs


just my thoughts

cicopo 12-20-2020 12:10 PM

Re: First SAM/Old Timer build in years..
 
The original Goldberg version was a contest Free Flight of the day & I suspect was built to climb in large gentle circles. Modern ones in general are for RC & carry more weight plus unless you have access to lots of balsa to hand pick your materials there are some compromises to work around. I have joined a build group on Facenook & was warned using the original style ribs for # 1 thru 4 has proven to almost guarantee a wing failure but that said sheet balsa was recommended for them & not ply.
Also note the plans from Outerzone is a 2 page set & page 1 is not to the same scale as page 2 which is at the correct scale. I did report this but never heard back. My build group did confirm I am right.
With so much wing area I'm not too concerned about the extra weight of the ply but I may lighten those ribs a bit once I have them cut. I want enough strength for 2 3/8" carbon fiber wing tubes.

AJCoholic 01-04-2021 03:57 PM

Re: First SAM/Old Timer build in years..
 
2 Attachment(s)
Started framing up the fuse.

The lg need to be soldered up and then wire tied and epoxied to the ply formers.

The motor mounts (maple bearers) and balsa cowl is done after the main fuse gets glued up.

williame3590 01-04-2021 08:42 PM

Re: First SAM/Old Timer build in years..
 
Cool, I have never built on a vertical table before. Is it difficult Andrew?

Bill

AJCoholic 01-17-2021 04:11 PM

Re: First SAM/Old Timer build in years..
 
6 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by williame3590 (Post 3820459)
Cool, I have never built on a vertical table before. Is it difficult Andrew?

Bill

Not if you have the right tools. :)

Today I made progress! Itís so nice to have my garage workshop now at the new house. Relaxing working on these old models.

AJCoholic 01-25-2021 10:04 PM

Re: First SAM/Old Timer build in years..
 
8 Attachment(s)
Fuselage and tail feathers sanded. Next step is to mount the three servos and do the pushrods before covering.

Prob start on the wing and cover everything afterwards.

williame3590 01-26-2021 08:12 AM

Re: First SAM/Old Timer build in years..
 
Very nice Andrew, how are you finishing the model? Fabric?

Bill

AJCoholic 01-26-2021 08:52 AM

Re: First SAM/Old Timer build in years..
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by williame3590 (Post 3826461)
Very nice Andrew, how are you finishing the model? Fabric?

Bill

Pre-painted solartex. (See page 1)

OLD PRAIRIE RED NECK 01-26-2021 06:18 PM

Re: First SAM/Old Timer build in years..
 
2 Attachment(s)
I just read through this thread and I love what you are doing Andrew! Right on with running that gold Saito!

I have two of them also, one has been run briefly because there were some doubters here that didn't think they were functional! I posted a YouTube of the first start at that time.
Your bird looks a lot like this one.

OLD PRAIRIE RED NECK 01-26-2021 06:24 PM

Re: First SAM/Old Timer build in years..
 
2 Attachment(s)
I too plan to run that engine in a plane and a while back bought the plans for the Fred Reese Golden Oldie Bipe. I too have a soft spot for transparent covering on open structures but am not too sure which color would compliment the engine best. I am also thinking that being as I do have all the variations of the Saito .30 it would be fun to swap them around from time to time!


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