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Old 11-01-2020, 11:19 AM   #81
CarlC
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Re: Upcoming Zone E election


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Quote:
Originally Posted by Propworn View Post
Sounds like a stalling tactic so he has more time to collect proxies. He knows the number you have so all he has to do is solicit more than you and he's in like flint.

I have gone to AZM and AGM meetings with proxies and had to fill in the date never have these been questioned even by the constitutional chair at the AGM who registered my proxies.

Wow what does the BOD say about this?

Do you have the numbers of proxies?


Dennis
Dennis.

I was there and I had helped canvass proxies for the ZD. Our Middle E Zone Director had in excess of 3 times the proxies that Mr. Grainger Brought. Make no mistake or delusions the only person who needed to, and continues to play games was NOT the current ZD.

ALSO:
Leaving a signed document incomplete with the intent of modifying it later is the epitome of unethical practice, it doesn't get more serious than that. There is no chance at all that it has ever been normal practice by anyone with ethics.

Altering legal signed documents in any way without a further signature by the original author, is illegal and unethical everywhere in Canada coast to coast. No group's bylaws no matter how twisted one's interpretation, may usurp Canadian law.

I'd use great discretion before admitting doing so on a public forum. Your honest handling of actual legal documents could now be held into question forever.

I know that my club's fields will be once again attacked because I've chirped in here but what is right is right, so I had to weigh in.

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Last edited by CarlC; 11-01-2020 at 11:25 AM.
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Old 11-01-2020, 11:21 AM   #82
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Re: Upcoming Zone E election

Quote:
Originally Posted by Propworn View Post
Sounds like a stalling tactic so he has more time to collect proxies. He knows the number you have so all he has to do is solicit more than you and he's in like flint.
All proxies are now invalid and everything has to start over from the beginning

Quote:
Originally Posted by Propworn View Post
Wow what does the BOD say about this?
I have sent out an email outlining what happened and just waiting to see if I get a response

Quote:
Originally Posted by Propworn View Post
Do you have the numbers of proxies for each side?
I was told a number greater than mine.. if that was the case, I don't know why he would have invalidated all of them including his..
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Old 11-01-2020, 11:46 AM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CarlC View Post

Dennis.

I was there and I had helped canvass proxies for the ZD. Our Middle E Zone Director had in excess of 3 times the proxies that Mr. Grainger Brought. Make no mistake or delusions the only person who needed to, and continues to play games was NOT the current ZD.

ALSO:
Leaving a signed document incomplete with the intent of modifying it later is the epitome of unethical practice, it doesn't get more serious than that. There is no chance at all that it has ever been normal practice by anyone with ethics.

Altering legal signed documents in any way without a further signature by the original author, is illegal and unethical everywhere in Canada coast to coast. No group's bylaws no matter how twisted one's interpretation, may usurp Canadian law.

I'd use great discretion before admitting doing so on a public forum. Your honest handling of actual legal documents could now be held into question forever.

I know that my club's fields will be once again attacked because I've chirped in here but what is right is right, so I had to weigh in.

Carl C 44232-L
I call BS. If the ZD truly had 3 times the votes he would have let the meeting continue and won. The problem was the vast majority of the ZD’s “proxies” were not valid as they were not signed MAAC proxies... they were obtained via his email solicitation of zone members for votes. None of them were signed and could not be validated.

All of the challengers proxies were given to MAAC for authentication prior to the meeting as it was suspected the ZD would pull a fast one.
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Old 11-01-2020, 12:47 PM   #84
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Re: Upcoming Zone E election

From what I've seen over the last few months I'm not surprised that this election was contentous. The BOD would have been wise to make sure the election rules were clear beforehand. And had a member of the Board on hand to observe.
Now what? Were the votes and proxies secured for later review? Or have they been destroyed? Does the present ZD continue on a hung vote? Or does he step aside until the mess is sorted out? Many many questions.
I will be writing the MAAC President suggesting a quick review and resolution to this, and a clarification, or a rewrite of the bylaws to make things clear.
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Old 11-01-2020, 02:59 PM   #85
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Re: Upcoming Zone E election

And I thought this coming Tuesday was going to be a cluster fuk.
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Old 11-01-2020, 03:06 PM   #86
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Re: Upcoming Zone E election

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hollywood Bob View Post
I call BS. If the ZD truly had 3 times the votes he would have let the meeting continue and won. The problem was the vast majority of the ZD’s “proxies” were not valid as they were not signed MAAC proxies... they were obtained via his email solicitation of zone members for votes. None of them were signed and could not be validated.

All of the challengers proxies were given to MAAC for authentication prior to the meeting as it was suspected the ZD would pull a fast one.
You can call BS until the cows com home Mr. B. Those with their thinking caps on see you.
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Old 11-01-2020, 03:15 PM   #87
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Re: Upcoming Zone E election

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hollywood Bob View Post
I call BS. If the ZD truly had 3 times the votes he would have let the meeting continue and won. The problem was the vast majority of the ZD’s “proxies” were not valid as they were not signed MAAC proxies... they were obtained via his email solicitation of zone members for votes. None of them were signed and could not be validated.

All of the challengers proxies were given to MAAC for authentication prior to the meeting as it was suspected the ZD would pull a fast one.
Sorry - not so. The current ZD did have far more proxies in total, but they were being questioned because they were mainly electronic. Today that is considered acceptable, even by chartered banks, but that practice is not in the bylaws, so it could be contested. Mr Grainger's proxies were incomplete, despite the MAAC form stipulating that they had to be completed, and they were completed later which is illegal
If a proxy has no date, it could be held for years and then used. That is why date must be there at time of signing.
Both sides questioned proxies on technicalities.
The suggestion that, if Rymer had more proxies I would have let the vote continue, is again false and a suggestion that I would show favouritism. I do know Roy, I only just met Jeff. They are both MAAC members and I cannot say who is the better man. That is not the point. I was there to check proxies and try to ensure fairness. If one party was using a technicality to disqualify proxies, then the other party had an equal right.
Had I suggested that the vote be held (SUGGESTED - I was not there to give orders) the result would have been a contested mess regardless of who was deemed to have won. My SUGGESTION was that a new meeting with clearly defined proxies should be held, as that would be fair to all. BOTH PARTIES AGREED TO THIS WITHOUT ANY COERCION. Jeff and Roy were then asked to choose a new date without influence of interference from anyone. They chose Feb 20th. Like it or not, the playing field is now level. I realize that collecting proxies again is work for both sides, but each side will likely now be careful to ensure that all parameters are met. I can only say - on Feb 20th, LET THE BETTER MAN WIN.
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Old 11-01-2020, 03:20 PM   #88
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Re: Upcoming Zone E election

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Toad View Post
Sorry - not so. The current ZD did have far more proxies in total, but they were being questioned because they were mainly electronic. Today that is considered acceptable, even by chartered banks, but that practice is not in the bylaws, so it could be contested. Mr Grainger's proxies were incomplete, despite the MAAC form stipulating that they had to be completed, and they were completed later which is illegal
If a proxy has no date, it could be held for years and then used. That is why date must be there at time of signing.
Both sides questioned proxies on technicalities.
The suggestion that, if Rymer had more proxies I would have let the vote continue, is again false and a suggestion that I would show favouritism. I do know Roy, I only just met Jeff. They are both MAAC members and I cannot say who is the better man. That is not the point. I was there to check proxies and try to ensure fairness. If one party was using a technicality to disqualify proxies, then the other party had an equal right.
Had I suggested that the vote be held (SUGGESTED - I was not there to give orders) the result would have been a contested mess regardless of who was deemed to have won. My SUGGESTION was that a new meeting with clearly defined proxies should be held, as that would be fair to all. BOTH PARTIES AGREED TO THIS WITHOUT ANY COERCION. Jeff and Roy were then asked to choose a new date without influence of interference from anyone. They chose Feb 20th. Like it or not, the playing field is now level. I realize that collecting proxies again is work for both sides, but each side will likely now be careful to ensure that all parameters are met. I can only say - on Feb 20th, LET THE BETTER MAN WIN.
Thank You.
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Old 11-01-2020, 03:45 PM   #89
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Re: Upcoming Zone E election

So "electronic" were valid. Does that mean unsigned? Surely the date missing is OK but unsigned is not. If the meeting is not known then there should be guidelines indicating the Annual Zone Meeting for YYYY" don't you think and someone in MAAC should have been smart enough to foresee that a long time ago. After all we see a lack of transparency due to "privacy, etc. etc." due to lawyer involvment, so why have the forms not been reviewed by a lawyer previously? Definitely sounds like a technicality used by the ZD. Whatever happened the arguments claiming it was all above board seem hollow.
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Old 11-01-2020, 04:08 PM   #90
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Re: Upcoming Zone E election

I was very emphatic that the question of whether or not valid, applied to BOTH sides.

It was not my place to do anything other than to validate what I knew to be correct. That I did, and as I said, the playing field is now guaranteed to be level, which is what I wanted to see happen. We are not now in a series of wars and diatribe whilst everyone argues about points that would need to go to court for finalsolution. We now have two candidates having to do some work over again! Sorry, but I saw no other alternative than a new meeting and NODODY present at the meeting disagreed. Take note of that!
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