It's official. Old School Carl Goldberg Valkyrie build. - RCCanada - Canada Radio Controlled Hobby Forum
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Old 03-08-2021, 07:00 PM   #1
cicopo
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It's official. Old School Carl Goldberg Valkyrie build.


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I searched the site & it looks like this will be the first thread on building one of these here. I DO NOT expect it will influence many others to even consider building one using home made ribs & formers etc considering how many hours that takes up. There are short kits & from the builds I've found on line that's the preferred way most go. I was influenced by a photo of 1 a few years ago & thought it was flying art & thanks to all the "stay home" time I needed to burn decided to have a go at building one this winter. I'm far enough along now to think there's no way I would give up but at the same time I'm not going to do a step by step build thread. I'll highlight what I'm doing & warn everyone the free on line plans are not very accurate.

First thing to say is that the plan available from Outerzone has many flaws & the worst one is that the 2 pages are at different scales. Page 1 is 105 inches wide but needs to be 120 inches wide to get correctly sized full size patterns or to lay up the wing over the plan. Next real issue was the fuselage formers have multiple errors. They should be round but some are slightly oval plus the square hole in the centre of them is correct in some & not very close to square in others. The patterns are helpful but canít be trusted as accurate. The lower tail fin is incorrectly drawn and so is the last few inches of the bottom of the fuselage. The plan shows a gap but in fact there shouldnít be one.
The next thing to mention is that the original plan (from what I found on line didnít actually exist) but this was designed as a contest free flight aircraft & keeping the weight down was extremely important. For RC use itís highly recommended to add strength in several areas and I learned recently itís wise to move the pylon back 1 Ĺ inches to help with the CG (which isnít mentioned anywhere). The very short nose could require a lot of extra ballast if you build it tail heavy There is a builders group on Facebook (https://www.facebook.com/groups/1383184291703899)
with good advice & several recommended upgrades including different ideas on making a 2 piece wing with a hidden retainer system. Most of the builders seem to go with laser cut kits or short kits but try hard to make it look like an original style build with lots of rib cross braces to retain the original look.
My build however is done to use up all the free time ďStaying SafeĒ to avoid Covid 19 infections has provided & as much as possible Iím building it old school according to the original method & using wood glue rather than CA (which would likely make for a more tidy set of ribs). The build group strongly recommended NOT using the trussed ribs for ribs 1 thru 4 or even 5 so Iíve gone with 3/32 ply for 1 thru 3 & 1/8 balsa for # 4. I am building a 2 piece wing & using 2 pieces of music wire to strengthen the joint. They slide into 3/16 aluminum tubes passing through ribs 1, 2 and 3. The music wire has been bent to give the required 10 inches of dihedral per wing (requires being bent to 19.2 degrees at the centre of each piece).

Now before I get into the actual build Iíve made the decision to build most of the components before building the wings & stabilizer. This is a real change for me but I knew there was a chance I might get bogged down using my usual ďwings firstĒ and the hard stuff last attitude. I stuck with that & have completed enough of the components to think Iíll finish what I started.

First set of photos show what I'm building or at least hoping to build. The next set is the jig I built & ribs built using the materials it shaped.
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Old 03-08-2021, 07:06 PM   #2
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Re: It's official. Old School Carl Goldberg Valkyrie build.

Wow, that wing looks like a gong show to put together LOL. Hope you plan to use transparent covering like the photos, would be a shame to cover that up.
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Old 03-08-2021, 07:11 PM   #3
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Re: It's official. Old School Carl Goldberg Valkyrie build.

In the past anytime I built I started with the wing & left the "tough stuff" to later but I felt I'd best go at this differently & decided once the wing basics were ready I'd start on the fuselage skeleton & then the fins & rudder & finally the basic stab & elevators. The fuselage it a whole new build concept for me & I've never done planking before but I'll be starting that phase very soon.
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Old 03-08-2021, 07:18 PM   #4
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Re: It's official. Old School Carl Goldberg Valkyrie build.

A few tools I used or made to help. My builders group provided a few different ideas for a 2 piece wing but I decided to do things a little differently & bent up some music wire to align & keep it strong.
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Old 03-08-2021, 08:04 PM   #5
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Re: It's official. Old School Carl Goldberg Valkyrie build.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HAL9KPCM View Post
Wow, that wing looks like a gong show to put together LOL. Hope you plan to use transparent covering like the photos, would be a shame to cover that up.
The wing is quite the thing & yes I intend to use transparent covering. My original plan was silk & dope but after thinking about it wouldn't show off the unique construction methods used in the design. It's going to take a lot of covering & that may be the biggest expense of the project.
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Old 03-09-2021, 05:23 AM   #6
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Re: It's official. Old School Carl Goldberg Valkyrie build.

Oh Wow! I cannot think of a more challenging bird to build. The end results are going to be well worth it. I will definitely be following this one!

Too bad about the inconsistencies in the plans. I suppose those that are trying to document these old birds could not possibly build them all to verify thier accuracy. That will be up to us.

Yes most of these old free flight designs are very short nosed because of the weight of the engines and ignition systems of the day. My Lanso Bomber is that way too to the extreme where the firewall is right at the leading edge of the wing. I ended up putting an old OS .90 FS on it for the weight only and flew at 1/3 throttle for take off and variations of idle for cruise. Even then it needed additional nose weight. Building the rear of these birds super light is the key and very very challenging!
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Old 03-09-2021, 05:48 AM   #7
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Re: It's official. Old School Carl Goldberg Valkyrie build.

What are your plans for power?
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Old 03-09-2021, 07:02 AM   #8
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Re: It's official. Old School Carl Goldberg Valkyrie build.

That's a time consuming build Larry, good for you. Are you familiar with Franny's build?
I could have bought one a number of years ago at the London swap meet RTF with a McCoy 60 ignition for 300.00
I hesitated just long enough to make one round of the meet and when I got back to it, she was sold. Still kicking myself for that move.
Semi transparent is definately the way to go with this model!

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Old 03-09-2021, 07:39 AM   #9
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Re: It's official. Old School Carl Goldberg Valkyrie build.

For the record I tend to build on the heavy side & I am doing my best to keep the tail end as light as I can. Also I can say this build so far has consumed a lot of hours & I wouldn't have started on it had life been the way it used to be. That said I'm enjoying those hours and the challenges of such a fragile build. So far I've probably had to replace a half dozen ribs I've broken just trying to push pins into drywall which was the wrong choice as a building board for this project. Ceiling tiles are my recommended choice for stuff like this but for nor I just need to be more careful.
Power choice is either a Power 25 or Power 32 (I've got both available & built the firewall with captive nuts for both mount patterns. The 32 is considerably heavier than the 25 & I'd rather use it than lead if nose weight is needed. A 25 on 3S 2200 pulls my Grand Esprit up near vertical so I suspect it's enough power. Either motor can run on 3S or 4S & my battery box is tight to the firewall, ESC will be right above it & the Rx very close by so all the RC component weight will be in the nose.
I'm debating making the stab & upper fin / rudder removable but doing that will add weight out back but I'll keep thinking on ways it might work out. I am building this to fly & although it's a risk I can't see a good reason it wouldn't fly well if built without any twists or warps. The plan shows the stab at Zero incidence but doesn't actually say what the wing should be other than to give a height to the front & rear of the pylon.
I have made one change to the build which affects things & created a bit of extra work for mounting the stab. I've rotated the fuselage 45 degrees from the way the plan says to build it. As per the plan the hole front to rear inside the fuselage is diamond shaped but I decided to build with a flat floor & ceiling below the pylon. This really doesn't change much component wise but did change the relationship of some stringers at the rear & I'm currently re working the area the stab glues to.
The first photo shows the way it's meant to be & the second is what I've done. If I was to do it again I'd keep the outer set of stringers in the same location & just re draw the hole down the centre rotated.
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Old 03-09-2021, 08:22 AM   #10
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Re: It's official. Old School Carl Goldberg Valkyrie build.

Hi Larry. Great build so far. I am liking some of your techniques, some I have never seen before and I can see how I would use some of these methods in future builds, so please keep the posts and techniques coming!

Also, in photo number 1, it mentions it crashed because of #4 rib failure.What the heck? does this mean that the design is weak? What caused the failure? Does that mean what happened to his plane can happen to yours? Or was there another reason that caused it?
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