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Old 02-03-2021, 04:43 PM   #91
Terry Gauvin
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Re: Swastika Yes or NO


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Originally Posted by lt130th View Post
The items that lawyer is referring to as speech are not 100% accurate with respect to the protections speifically outlined in the U.S. Constitution, and very difficult to stand on or against in a U.S. court. For example, I can walk into a crowded shopping mall, and proclaim that I'm going to murder everyone, then just stand there and wait. If security or police aske to leave the mall, and I refuse, an arrest will likely be made, and charges brought against me. That has everything to do with the fact that I raised an audible disturbance in a public space, more so than the words I spoke. So the actions are what draw the consequences, not the words. I can also say, freely, that I intend to murder the president of the U.S. I just did, and nothing is going to happen to me. If I yell it from outside the White House, nothing changes. We can dissect all the other scenarios the lawyer mentions, and each one will have the same outcome. Even in the case of child pornography, your speech is protected, as disgusting as it might be. All of this is not to say that constitutional protection of people's speech isn't often, unjustly violated.

And yes, we could probably debate this until our fingers are covered in blisters from typing. I get the feeling there are just as many infringement on freedom of speech, in Canada, as there are in the U.S., these days. Yeah, for PC culture [sarcasm]. I enjoy RC waaaaay more than interpreting constitutional law. 🙂
Standing in a mall and proclaiming that you will murder everyone is uttering a threat to cause bodily harm and would never be protected by freedom of speech. Donít care what side of the border you are on. And, if you think you can speak endlessly about child porn without ever being served with a search warrant I think you are a bit of a dreamer.
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Old 02-04-2021, 08:39 AM   #92
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Re: Swastika Yes or NO

This topic has certainly deviated.

The matter of the swastika is not one of free speech, although some like to portray it that way. It’s about not glorifying or promoting Nazi ideology and actions. It’s about having respect for those that suffered & died and fought against them.

So it’s not something to be used on a whim, or just to be controversial. On a period German aircraft, go ahead. It’s as appropriate as having a pilot in the cockpit. But don’t go using where it doesn’t belong, because then you’re just asking for (and deserving) trouble.
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Old 02-04-2021, 09:36 AM   #93
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Re: Swastika Yes or NO

HEAR HEAR!
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Old 02-04-2021, 05:48 PM   #94
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Re: Swastika Yes or NO

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This topic has certainly deviated.

The matter of the swastika is not one of free speech, although some like to portray it that way. Itís about not glorifying or promoting Nazi ideology and actions. Itís about having respect for those that suffered & died and fought against them.

So itís not something to be used on a whim, or just to be controversial. On a period German aircraft, go ahead. Itís as appropriate as having a pilot in the cockpit. But donít go using where it doesnít belong, because then youíre just asking for (and deserving) trouble.
I agree 100%
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Old 02-04-2021, 07:42 PM   #95
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Re: Swastika Yes or NO

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Originally Posted by CF105 View Post
This topic has certainly deviated.

The matter of the swastika is not one of free speech, although some like to portray it that way. It’s about not glorifying or promoting Nazi ideology and actions. It’s about having respect for those that suffered & died and fought against them.

So it’s not something to be used on a whim, or just to be controversial. On a period German aircraft, go ahead. It’s as appropriate as having a pilot in the cockpit. But don’t go using where it doesn’t belong, because then you’re just asking for (and deserving) trouble.

Reproducing the symbol is glorifying it , An r/c aircraft is a whim and has no significant historical or educational value , It's simply reproducing a hate symbol ,even the ones that feel indifferent should know it's not something that should be done . I could see a piece being done for a museum to tell the horrific story , but having the general public thinking it's ok to use it on a whim and yes I think R/C is a whim , is beyond me .It's not like having a pilot in the cockpit, that's just a German solder doing his job , I don't think anyone has a problem with the German people , planes or Flag . The symbol represents the sick ideology of a twisted leader that put millions of children in gas chambers . Why in the world would anyone not feel ashamed reproducing it ..
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Old 02-04-2021, 07:54 PM   #96
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Re: Swastika Yes or NO

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Reproducing the symbol is glorifying it , An r/c aircraft is a whim and has no significant historical or educational value , It's simply reproducing a hate symbol ,even the ones that feel indifferent should know it's not something that should be done . I could see a piece being done for a museum to tell the horrific story , but having the general public thinking it's ok to use it on a whim and yes I think R/C is a whim , is beyond me .It's not like having a pilot in the cockpit, that's just a German solder doing his job , I don't think anyone has a problem with the German people , planes or Flag . The symbol represents the sick ideology of a twisted leader that put millions of children in gas chambers . Why in the world would anyone not feel ashamed reproducing it ..
I am with you. No intention to insult the builder but there is absolutely nothing ďauthenticĒ with this model, from size to colours, to materials to, shape of wheels, propeller, whatever... No reason for the markings to attempt to be authentic either.
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Old 02-04-2021, 10:33 PM   #97
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Re: Swastika Yes or NO

Quote:
Originally Posted by RAMJET View Post
Reproducing the symbol is glorifying it , An r/c aircraft is a whim and has no significant historical or educational value , It's simply reproducing a hate symbol ,even the ones that feel indifferent should know it's not something that should be done . I could see a piece being done for a museum to tell the horrific story , but having the general public thinking it's ok to use it on a whim and yes I think R/C is a whim , is beyond me .It's not like having a pilot in the cockpit, that's just a German solder doing his job , I don't think anyone has a problem with the German people , planes or Flag . The symbol represents the sick ideology of a twisted leader that put millions of children in gas chambers . Why in the world would anyone not feel ashamed reproducing it ..
Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry Gauvin View Post
I am with you. No intention to insult the builder but there is absolutely nothing ďauthenticĒ with this model, from size to colours, to materials to, shape of wheels, propeller, whatever... No reason for the markings to attempt to be authentic either.
There you have it! As well as ending the horrendous atrocities, one of the most wonderful things to come of the kinds of sacrifices made in the fight to destroy Hitler and the German National Socialists is the right to opine with impunity. Denying the right to opine being one part of and akin to the oppression we all avoided. Wonderful discussion, timely too.

P.s.: When I began this thread I never imagined it lasting so long. As an update the Heinkel He-51 was finished in Swiss Airforce ColoursÖ No Swastikas.
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Old 02-04-2021, 10:39 PM   #98
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Re: Swastika Yes or NO

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Originally Posted by RAMJET View Post
Reproducing the symbol is glorifying it , An r/c aircraft is a whim and has no significant historical or educational value , It's simply reproducing a hate symbol ,even the ones that feel indifferent should know it's not something that should be done . I could see a piece being done for a museum to tell the horrific story , but having the general public thinking it's ok to use it on a whim and yes I think R/C is a whim , is beyond me .It's not like having a pilot in the cockpit, that's just a German solder doing his job , I don't think anyone has a problem with the German people , planes or Flag . The symbol represents the sick ideology of a twisted leader that put millions of children in gas chambers . Why in the world would anyone not feel ashamed reproducing it ..
I have to disagree with that first statement. The intent & context determine whether itís being glorified. On a scale model, national markings whatever they may be, are just another scale detail.

Frankly it bothers me that weíve surrendered this ancient symbol to such a vile regime & ideology.
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Old 02-04-2021, 10:47 PM   #99
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Re: Swastika Yes or NO

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I have to disagree with that first statement. The intent & context determine whether it’s being glorified. On a scale model, national markings whatever they may be, are just another scale detail.

Frankly it bothers me that we’ve surrendered this ancient symbol to such a vile regime & ideology.
I disagree also, but we all respect and honor his right to have that opinion. It is after all merely opinion. Knowing his and respecting it is a beautiful thing, embrace the freedom.
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Old 02-05-2021, 05:34 AM   #100
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Re: Swastika Yes or NO

People talk about the need for scale fidelity.

There is no compulsion to build a model airplane.
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