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Old 08-01-2020, 07:54 AM   #151
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Re: MAAC constitution changes


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And there we have it. .... Full circle.

As I sit with my “one cup of coffee” this fine flying morning, I Don’t disagree with the premise that the organization is composed of different interests that make for a more diverse, interesting and stronger organization.

Again, I encourage, and have/will fight for all to go enjoy your hobby in the best, most pleasurable and safe way you desire.

It’s the underlying premise of conspiracy against all competition flyers and an assertion of board disarray designed to win favor, but will only serve to divide and weaken us, that sours my “cup of coffee”.

It’s the personal attacks, and back door behind the scenes skullduggery against MAAC executive, board members and those who won’t agree with a specific ideology that sours my whole pot of coffee.

At least we now agree to allow our long established process to play through.

Again: It is my position that a modern constitution, particularly in an era of unprecedented turmoil and change Both inside and outside our hobby, should not permanently bind MAAC to ANY outside organizations that we have little or no control of. I believe that is common sense.
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Old 08-01-2020, 09:53 AM   #152
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Re: MAAC constitution changes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharpy01 View Post

It’s the personal attacks, and back door behind the scenes skullduggery against MAAC executive, board members and those who won’t agree with a specific ideology that sours my whole pot of coffee.

At least we now agree to allow our long established process to play through.

Again: It is my position that a modern constitution, particularly in an era of unprecedented turmoil and change Both inside and outside our hobby, should not permanently bind MAAC to ANY outside organizations that we have little or no control of. I believe that is common sense.
I've seen plenty of personal attacks against those who believe that this resolution is flawed and unnecessary, none against its proponents. What "behind the scenes skullduggery" - can we see some evidence for those assertions? What ideology are people being asked to accept? Belief in the protection of minority rights?

I've not seen anyone suggest that the process shouldn't be played through - just that it should be carried out in a fair manner - not having only the 'pro' arguments forwarded to the membership and none of the 'con'.

You repeat the mantra about a 'modern' constitution - what is it about our current constitution that has ever prohibited the board from doing whatever it takes to guide the ship MAAC through troubled waters - when we have encountered them? Our current constitution DOES NOT "permanently bind" MAAC to any outside organization - that is a false and deceptive statement. That connection can be changed, at any time, as long as a large proportion of the organization agrees to do so, which I am sure they would do if really sound, defensible, arguments could be presented to them. What this resolution seeks to do is to make it possible for a simple majority on the board to wreak harm upon a minority whose activities cause no harm to anyone, and to do so with immediate effect and without reference to the membership until after the fact. Having that ability does absolutely nothing to enhance the power of the board to react to "turmoil and change". This is not common sense, not in any stretch of the use of that term.
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Old 08-01-2020, 11:13 AM   #153
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Re: MAAC constitution changes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aeronut161! View Post
I've seen plenty of personal attacks against those who believe that this resolution is flawed and unnecessary, none against its proponents. What "behind the scenes skullduggery" - can we see some evidence for those assertions? What ideology are people being asked to accept? Belief in the protection of minority rights?

I've not seen anyone suggest that the process shouldn't be played through - just that it should be carried out in a fair manner - not having only the 'pro' arguments forwarded to the membership and none of the 'con'.

You repeat the mantra about a 'modern' constitution - what is it about our current constitution that has ever prohibited the board from doing whatever it takes to guide the ship MAAC through troubled waters - when we have encountered them? Our current constitution DOES NOT "permanently bind" MAAC to any outside organization - that is a false and deceptive statement. That connection can be changed, at any time, as long as a large proportion of the organization agrees to do so, which I am sure they would do if really sound, defensible, arguments could be presented to them. What this resolution seeks to do is to make it possible for a simple majority on the board to wreak harm upon a minority whose activities cause no harm to anyone, and to do so with immediate effect and without reference to the membership until after the fact. Having that ability does absolutely nothing to enhance the power of the board to react to "turmoil and change". This is not common sense, not in any stretch of the use of that term.

There is a very small closed group here who at least "appear" to me spearheading this minority resolution. From my personal experience with them it may even include one of this sites own moderators, but that just my personal conjecture as one evening a very very noxious post or series of posts on another thread also frequented by the same "Boys" circle was made, edited by the poster and then removed within 30 minutes. The thread was then re-engineered into separate threads likely so as to insulate someone who wanted to keep himself separate from his embarrassing buddies. Fortunately several screen shots were taken of all of that for posterity. So yes a very closed group that will sink into sarcastic babble if the thread gets off on a tangent not serving their agenda, to shoo away intelligent opposition I reckon. Few trying to skirt the fair majority.
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Old 08-01-2020, 02:18 PM   #154
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Re: MAAC constitution changes

LoL .... ok, instead of Exposing my obvious attempt to subvert the fundamental democratic process of the free world........... (Gosh, if you fellas are as passionate fighting against our “real“ government’s real corruption and subversion of Democracy, I am more hopeful of Canada’s future than I am now .... but I digress)...

..... we could allow the process to follow the current, and long standing constitutional process that y’all are speaking to where, if an appropriate majority of the membership will decide one way or the other. I’ll accept the outcome of that process.

Again: It is my position that a modern constitution, particularly in an era of unprecedented turmoil and change Both inside and outside our hobby, should not permanently bind MAAC to ANY outside organizations that we have little or no control of. I believe that is common sense
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Old 08-01-2020, 03:42 PM   #155
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Re: MAAC constitution changes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Toad View Post
Our constitution has served us well for over seventy years. When it needs changes, these changes should be made. The proposed change is not needed. Participation in FAI hurts nobody and is the core of the hobby for a great many people. Despite protestations to the effect that the current board is united, other than a couple of cranks, there is a significant minority on the board who have assured me that they are very opposed to the change.
The only valid argument that can be raised in favour of the resolution is that it would save money. That is true. All other suggestions of a doubling of fees or the collapse of FAI are mindless fearmongering. The amount saved would be approximately 2% of the annual budget.
Looking at other large expenses, all of which I personally agree with:
RABC participation protects our frequencies. This is of zero interest to those that fly free flight or control line, but I have never heard a single word of complaint from those people.
Transport Canada participation protects our use of airspace. This is of zero interest to control line flyers and indoor flyers, as they do not use airspace. Again, no complaints.
Insurance. This protects those who fly giant aircraft and turbines, but is of minimal interest to those who fly small lightweight models. We all pay the same amount.
The strength of our hobby has always resided in amicable and tolerant participation in a wide range of activities, sport and competitive.
Here we have a group of people (the same group that tried the same thing directly twenty years ago) determined, in a very indirect manner, to spoil the hobby for a large number of people who have done them no harm, and all for the annual cost per member of a cup of coffee?
The “survey” that started all of this was a biased and unfair document. I note that the results were never published regardless.
Despite the assurances that the change was merely for “Housekeeping” and ‘Nimbleness” there is considerable documentary proof that the real intent was eventually to separate MAAC from FAI.
Democracy being what it is, the matter will go to a vote at the AGM. It can only be hoped that friendship, camaraderie and the maintenance of an all embracing aeromodelling society that respects the rights of minorities will prevail.
At this point, I await the AGM.
Again "many" "significant minority" "biased and unfair" I could go on but all of those should be IMNSHO because they are not proven facts.
My coffee costs .07..is that what the cost is?

Await it then.
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Old 08-01-2020, 03:52 PM   #156
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Re: MAAC constitution changes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Toad View Post
Our constitution has served us well for over seventy years. When it needs changes, these changes should be made. The proposed change is not needed. Participation in FAI hurts nobody and is the core of the hobby for a great many people. Despite protestations to the effect that the current board is united, other than a couple of cranks, there is a significant minority on the board who have assured me that they are very opposed to the change.
The only valid argument that can be raised in favour of the resolution is that it would save money. That is true. All other suggestions of a doubling of fees or the collapse of FAI are mindless fearmongering. The amount saved would be approximately 2% of the annual budget.
Looking at other large expenses, all of which I personally agree with:
RABC participation protects our frequencies. This is of zero interest to those that fly free flight or control line, but I have never heard a single word of complaint from those people.
Transport Canada participation protects our use of airspace. This is of zero interest to control line flyers and indoor flyers, as they do not use airspace. Again, no complaints.
Insurance. This protects those who fly giant aircraft and turbines, but is of minimal interest to those who fly small lightweight models. We all pay the same amount.
The strength of our hobby has always resided in amicable and tolerant participation in a wide range of activities, sport and competitive.
Here we have a group of people (the same group that tried the same thing directly twenty years ago) determined, in a very indirect manner, to spoil the hobby for a large number of people who have done them no harm, and all for the annual cost per member of a cup of coffee?
The “survey” that started all of this was a biased and unfair document. I note that the results were never published regardless.
Despite the assurances that the change was merely for “Housekeeping” and ‘Nimbleness” there is considerable documentary proof that the real intent was eventually to separate MAAC from FAI.
Democracy being what it is, the matter will go to a vote at the AGM. It can only be hoped that friendship, camaraderie and the maintenance of an all embracing aeromodelling society that respects the rights of minorities will prevail.
At this point, I await the AGM.

100% on point, especially the hope that camaraderie prevails. Cheers!
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Old 08-01-2020, 03:53 PM   #157
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Re: MAAC constitution changes

.....................
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Old 08-01-2020, 04:38 PM   #158
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Re: MAAC constitution changes

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.....................
...... you’re going to need a strong exercise regime if you continue to consume popcorn in such quantity 😉

Cheers from all of us out here enjoying another perfect day of toy-airplaneing

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Old 08-01-2020, 07:53 PM   #159
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Re: MAAC constitution changes

[quote=Sharpy01;3784497]...... you’re going to need a strong exercise regime if you continue to consume popcorn in such quantity ��

Cheers from all of us out here enjoying another perfect day of toy-airplaneing


Had a perfect day with the grand kids by the pool, no Miniature Planes played with today. Did that yesterday!
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Old 08-01-2020, 07:56 PM   #160
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Re: MAAC constitution changes

OH!.....................
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